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Why Germans have higher productivity and longer vacations

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Re: Why Germans have higher productivity and longer vacations

#71

Post by bilch »

tptacek wrote: post #38
maxawaytoolong wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renting an apartment in Berlin is WAY cheaper than in NYC, and the cheap apartments are actually nice. That's not really answering your question, but for a gigantor metropolis berlin is a lot cheaper than manhattan...

The rental market in Manhattan simply isn't comparable to the rest of the US. The average cost of a 3bdr apartment in the center of Berlin is, from casual Google research, almost exactly the same in USD as a 3bdr apartment in the middle of Chicago. Chicago, in turn, is more expensive than Cleveland, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Columbus, Omaha, &c &c.

Doesn't a three bedroom apartment actually have four rooms, three of them bedrooms? In Berlin "Dreizimmerwohnung" means that there are three rooms, period. So maybe your calculation is off by one.

Re: Why Germans have higher productivity and longer vacations

#72

Post by varjag »

GiraffeNecktie wrote: post #29

According to this table Germany actually has LOWER productivity than the United States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:OECD_Productivity_levels_2... Or MUCH lower according to this table http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_ove_pro_ppp-economy-ov...

You don't really think we in Norway are 20% more productive than people in the US, right?

The graph is just a rephrased GDP per capita. For a small nation with massive oil sector you have a huge distortion of metric it supposed to illustrate.

Re: Why Germans have higher productivity and longer vacations

#73

Post by varjag »

BrandonM wrote: post #63
fforw wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you also have 3.5 times the population http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP... difference only 26%... guess you should move to Qatar or Luxembourg though -- but when you're not rich from oil or moving large sums of bank money around, that high GDP is not actually helping, is it? And then there is stuff like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_index .

> And then there is stuff like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_index . Wow, that article looks pretty bogus. Here are their factors: 2. Family life: Divorce rate. My parents are divorced and they both seem pretty happy. This metric seems very biased and not clearly beneficial. Is it better to keep an unhappy marriage together or to create two new happier marriages? 3. Community life: country has either h…

> 9. Gender equality: Measured using ratio of average male and female earnings. Terrible. Does this even factor in number of hours worked? It certainly doesn't account for differences in the work being performed or for cultural differences.

This is still a useful metric, cultural reasons or not. Half of the world's population are women.

Re: Why Germans have higher productivity and longer vacations

#74

Post by jasonkester »

Reading the comments here, I'm surprised to see so many people defending the 2-week-vacation policies in America, rather than trying to figure out ways to get 6-week-vacations implemented over here. Doesn't anybody think they'd be happier with more time off? Enough so to make it a priority?

I tend to take a lot of time off, and one thing I notice when I come back from a trip is how much more productive I feel. It's like there's all this pent-up brainpower waiting to get out, and none of whatever baggage was clogging it up before I left to get in the way.

I used to work 3 month contracts at this one shop, with 6 to 9 month breaks in the middle. I actually alienated some of the developers there because I'd show up and be 10X - 50X as productive as the next guy (measurable in things delivered), mainly because I was so stoked to be back writing code. I know that if I'd stayed there an entire year at a stretch, my throughput would have come down to a similar level as the rest of the team. But because of the way I worked, they'd get 3 months of fast, and then I'd be out the door.

I notice the same thing with my own projects when I'm travelling. If I dip out of internet coverage for a week or so and then get a day to run, it's amazing to see how much I get done in that day. I imagine that you could get similar results at a regular company by taking 3 or 4 short breaks over the course of the year.

Re: Why Germans have higher productivity and longer vacations

#75

Post by mars »

jdminhbg wrote: post #58
mars wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm partner at an interactive agency in germany and i was wondering how much development work in the u.s. costs. we are billing our customers 80-100eur per hour (109-136usd). experienced freelancers (frontend/backend devs) bill between 35 and 60 eur per hour (47-81 usd). is that comparable to the states?

Experienced Rails devs in the US generally bill $100+/hr; similar for .NET contractors. I don't have a ton of pricing experience with anything else.

are you talking about companies or freelancers?

Re: Why Germans have higher productivity and longer vacations

#77

Post by loewenskind »

tptacek wrote: post #64
Vivtek wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine was built in 1885, but we're not typical, tptacek.

The average house in Oak Park is many, many decades old. I don't know what Europeans think of us, but I hope there isn't a stereotype that we live in disposable houses!

What does "many, many decades old" mean? You do realize that there are people living in houses in Europe that have existed longer than the US has been a country, right?

You do live in disposable houses. Have you seen how a house in the US is built? The walls are made of what are called 2"x4"s [1], spaced 1.5' apart. If you've ever been to Lowes or one of those kinds of places and seen insulation you'll see why. Insulation comes in big rolls 1.5' wide. Once the insulation is in sheetrock is put on the inside and blackboard on the outside. If the home is a brick it will then have bricks laid in front of the blackboard with a strip of plastic in between because of the moisture, otherwise they just put siding on.

And that's it. When I explain this to people in Europe the reaction is always the same. First they look at me like they don't believe me, then they exclaim "so that's why they always fall over in high winds". There is a story over here about a German who build a German-style home on the east coast. When the inevitable hurricane came the only damage his home suffered was from the debris of the cheap American homes that fell apart hitting his house.

[1] It's actually 1.5"x3.5". I believe they are counting the eventual siding as part of the size.

Re: Why Germans have higher productivity and longer vacations

#78

Post by loewenskind »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #13
gaius wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is not always a good indicator of societal wealth. The standard of living rankings tell a truer story.

I disagree. PPP-adjusted money is a measure of how much of the stuff you want that you can actually afford to have. "Standard of living" rankings tend to measure how much of the stuff that the study creators want that you can afford to have. A nation might have a low rank due simply to the fact that the people living there prefer different things than what the study creators think they should prefer. Measuring PPP-ad…

Wouldn't that have the problem of people in one area wanting more expensive things than the other?

Re: Why Germans have higher productivity and longer vacations

#79

Post by loewenskind »

gamble wrote: post #68
yummyfajitas wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Max Klein, that is certainly true for programmers. Based on the numbers he gave, "a good programmer" in Germany gets paid less than a fresh college grad in the US. http://maxkle.in/giving-up-on-europe/

There is no country where programmers are as well paid as the US. Even in Canada, where cost-of-living and salaries are normally comparable, programmers are paid at least 20-30% less. I'm not sure why, but it's a dramatic difference. Of course, it's also the reason US companies are so eager to outsource programming jobs.

I'm not sure this is the case. If you had said Silicon Valley or New York I might have agreed but otherwise I think there are places in Europe that pay more than much of the US. At least in Finance.

Re: Why Germans have higher productivity and longer vacations

#80

Post by vegasbrianc »

I'm not joining the battle on which country is more efficient but I do think it is important that you can disconnect from work with vacation/holiday. Born in the US and now living in Europe for over 6 years I've worked in both environments. I do have to say when returning from a long vacation you are ready to hit the ground running with your batteries fully charged.
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