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Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

mosaicscience.com

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Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#61

Post by shabda »

Frqy3 wrote: post #58
hycaria wrote: post #27

Am I the only one not so very enthuastic about organ donation ? Except for cornea, it means a life long of heavy immunosuppressive treatments (which are not free afaik), leading to higher cancer rates and many other side effects. Things are rarely a pure win, there are downsides (even though they are suspiciously rarely mentioned). I don't think we have such a shortage of people that we have to save every and each on…

As someone who has lived more than an extra 10 years of life due to receiving a transplant, I am very happy to take my daily immunosuppressant medication. For context, I was in my 30s when I had the transplant. If I was 70+, then perhaps I might pass. I hope you are never in the position of being on a waiting list for an organ donation, but it is much easier to dismiss an abstract idea of saving some unspecified life…

High five! I received my transplant at age of 24, nine years ago. I hope many, many years of life to you.

I hope anyone reading this thread considers signing up to be an organ donor. There is very few free lunches, but organ transplant is one of them.

Also, this line from the parent post requires a response:

> I don't think we have such a shortage of people that we have to save every and each one no matter the cost.

Organ donations are huge net positives for society. In a world with no organ transplants, the renal failure patients would be spending an average of 5 years longer on dialysis, which ties up hospitals, patients and caregivers mush longer than a transplant operation plus+ immunosuppressive treatments do.

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#62

Post by shabda »

eezurr wrote: post #39
pjc50 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument seems to be that surviving an otherwise incurable illness has .. downsides?

I dont have a source for this, but I've been told a couple times that doctors who get cancer tend to decline chemotherapy/treatment because of what the treatments do to the body. It was described as aging your body to a frail old person (not matter what your initial age was), that is not reversible. Or think about this on the extreme end: I think many people would choose a time to die peacefully rather than sit in a…

Plus with organ transplant you hardly "sit in a semi-vegetable state ". I am a transplant recipient, and have a near normal life.

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#63

Post by bjourne »

trappist wrote: post #46

This is one of those interesting questions where almost all laymen agree it should be altruistic, and almost all economists, from every school of thought including Marxism, agree there should be a market. Iran is currently the only country with a legal organ market. It also happens to be the only country with no shortages or wait lists. Both facts were true in India and The Philippines until the sale of organs was pr…

There are clearly some ethical concerns with creating an open market for organs. The Israeli system I think is a great compromise. In Judaism, corpses are sacred so even autopsies can be controversial in some circles. Therefore the organ donor rate was very low. The solution? Whoever is a registered organ donor receives priority over those who aren't. Since there are so few organ donors in Israel, having priority is crucial and can mean the difference between life and death. Therefore the number of organ donors have skyrocketed. I think it is an ingenious system.

https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/164976/is...

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#64

Post by dogma1138 »

baud147258 wrote: post #43
severine wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edit: sorry, I hadn't read the article, I see it says more or less the same than my link > Spain managed to solve the infrastructure and process related problems That's correct, the Organizacion Nacional de Transplantes is the main culprit. You can read about it here: http://www.newsweek.com/2015/02/20/spain-has-become-world-le... > Dr Matesanz rejects the idea of a Spanish miracle or a unique store of generosity in…

> transplant law, which presumes consent unless otherwise stated The same law is being applied in France, you have to be registered as not a donor in a national database. But, as the doctor said, the problem is with the available organisation, not the laws that are applied.

Exactly there might be a lot of other factors.

For example is familial consent is required and the answer is usually yes even in Spain AFAIK.

But that doesn’t mean they are all equal the time that it takes to contact a family and get consent plays a critical role so is who contacts them as in a professional that can explain to them the process and increase the likelihood of consent being given to some busy administrator asking them that as btw....

Also are all hospitals equipped for organ harvesting? Do they have free surgeons and free surgical staff and rooms for that? Can all hospitals handle transport and distribution of organs? How fast is donor decision can be made after harvesting?

These are all critical factors for organ donation in cases that do not involve a vegetable state patient where organ donation can be planned.

I don’t know about the UK but I have knowledge of another opt-out system in a different country and in the case if the family couldn’t be contacted in time for the organs to be harvested the reason for why not would be recorded as the same as the family refused and that is “consent was not given”.

So to me the % difference can be just that Spain is quicker at contacting the family and is more prepared for organ harvesting and distribution for ad-hoc cases in which time is critical.

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#65

Post by grecy »

bjourne wrote: post #60
grecy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend from University has spent the last ~15 years working in the organ donation site of ER medicine. They actually spend more time trying to revive a donor and doing everything they possibly can because of misconceptions like what you said above. She is quite certain that if anything, being a donor actually increases the likelihood of you being revived by medical staff, who would much rather revive you than have…

That implies that ER personnel can tell organ donors from non-donors apart. Is there any evidence that they can?

Given the donor team are usually standing right outside the door waiting, I would say they know.

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#66

Post by hutzlibu »

shabda wrote: post #61
Frqy3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has lived more than an extra 10 years of life due to receiving a transplant, I am very happy to take my daily immunosuppressant medication. For context, I was in my 30s when I had the transplant. If I was 70+, then perhaps I might pass. I hope you are never in the position of being on a waiting list for an organ donation, but it is much easier to dismiss an abstract idea of saving some unspecified life…

High five! I received my transplant at age of 24, nine years ago. I hope many, many years of life to you. I hope anyone reading this thread considers signing up to be an organ donor. There is very few free lunches, but organ transplant is one of them. Also, this line from the parent post requires a response: > I don't think we have such a shortage of people that we have to save every and each one no matter the cost.…

Signed up long ago. Why not, I mean why would I care what happens to my organs, if I am dead? So if someone can benefit, good for them and good for you!

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#67

Post by bjourne »

grecy wrote: post #65
bjourne wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That implies that ER personnel can tell organ donors from non-donors apart. Is there any evidence that they can?

Given the donor team are usually standing right outside the door waiting, I would say they know.

That seems like a bad situation. It can cause rumors like that hospital staff doesn't try as hard to save donor patients because they can harvest their organs can spread.

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#68

Post by hycaria »

shabda wrote: post #59
hycaria wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did I say dialysis is better ? Also idk your personal reasons for need of a transplant but common reasons for acute renal failure are diabetes melleitus, vascular disease, and immunological diseases. Many in each category have a genetic component. I wouldn't dare to pass such risk to offspring but to each his own I guess. To grossly sum it up, we end up putting new kidneys in people who fucked up their own beca…

Are you seriously suggesting anyone who has renal failure shouldn't have children? What next - siblings of renal failure should be sterilized because they might be at Y% higher chance of X unknown disease? Your choice if you don't want to sign up for organ donation, and I respect your choice. Everyone should make their choices about their bodies. However, your choices are coming from horrible misinformation.

I don't think it's very wise but there's no obligation. If you want to have children risking to suffer from the same life altering conditions that's your choice. But what happens when everyone in your lineage is dependent on organ donation or more generally lifelong drug dependance? Is that alright or should we act when it's preventable (genetic counseling etc)?

Also what is misinformed? Are you living without treatment? Do you indeed carry any risk for offspring or are you in the slight share of patients who got acute renal failure thanks to some bacterial infection? Since you didn't address it and the odds are not in favor, I don't have much doubt on the answer. I don't think much is factually wrong, rather that you're displeased with my conclusions : not worth enabling.

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