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Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

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Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#341

Post by ThrustVectoring »

nimish wrote: post #116
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't regulate packaging, put a Pigouvian Tax on it. It's far better.

Why is that? A tax is slower and exempts the wealthy while inflicting the costs onto the poor. Regulation is cheaper, better, fairer and faster at getting policy implemented than a technical tax, and doesn't have the behavioral issues that abound when telling people they are "taxed" for doing something.

Prices do a great deal of work communicating and providing feedback about what consumers value. When you ban the product outright, you lose any ability to use that price information to make good tradeoffs between various goals of environmental improvement and consumer satisfaction. Ignoring the price that these regulations put on consumers isn't in their best interest.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#342

Post by steve19 »

magduf wrote: post #135
oldcynic wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Targets the wrong place. It may reduce contamination of recycling streams, but does nothing to encourage less production. Perhaps a combination approach: $5 for a pack of small bin liners, or return your waste to the shop for free. If Tesco were filled with piles of consumer waste given back to them I posit the problem would be on the way to being solved within weeks.

>It may reduce contamination of recycling streams, but does nothing to encourage less production. Sure it does. If you're going to slapped with a $200 fine every time you screw up with your recycling, and you have to pay by the bag to throw stuff in the landfill, if you have half a brain, you're going to think twice about every purchase you make, and if you really need it. That $1 water bottle that costs you $200 bec…

Or it may just create perverse incentives fir people to throw everything in landfill. Not 100% sure where to put that $1 drink bottle, throw in the trash and don't risk a $200.

Not sure how that could be prevented.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#343

Post by TheGRS »

dougmwne wrote: post #246
ada1981 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burying garbage in a big hole in the ground is not a sustainable solution.

Maybe it is? We can dig some pretty deep holes. It may not be pretty but seems to work.

I guess I've never really thought about it from an unbiased perspective before. How bad are landfills if they are done in some sort of long-term strategy? You can cover over the landfill and make new land with it (many parks are basically this). But I worry about things like battery acid and other chemicals seeping into the water table or causing who knows what damage to the soil.

At least on its face if you're putting the plastic deep in the ground, from whence it came, maybe that's a decent intermediary solution.

But I would also agree with anyone who says its not sustainable. The amount of waste we produce seems a little insane compared to other creatures on the planet.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#344

Post by dreamcompiler »

bunderbunder wrote: post #258
dreamcompiler wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blue Apron's cold packs are ridiculous. The goop leaks onto the food, they're a nightmare to dispose of, and they're heavy; probably 75% of the weight of a BA box is the cold packs. If they used dry ice, the boxes would be much lighter weight -- saving on shipping costs -- and they would simply evaporate rather than needing to be trashed.

It might not be feasible for them. Shippers place pretty strict limits on how much dry ice can go onto one of their planes, on account of not wanting to suffocate the air crew mid flight.

Interesting. Didn't know this. And you're absolutely right: https://about.van.fedex.com/blog/dry-ice-shipments-in-air-tr...

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#345

Post by victorhooi »

WalterBright wrote: post #340
victorhooi wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, surely you can see that's a little crazy? I'm all for environmental awareness - but it's a bit like the people saying, oh, why do you not use re-usable containers for everything, or do you really need to dishwash everything? Things like food safety, and not making your customers sick are enshrined in law - and that's a good thing. Even at my work, they aren't allowed to re-serve/re-heat things that have been ser…

I don't see what your reply has to do with my comment.

You're saying the CO2 risk is OK, because they have oxygen masks.

That's like saying, increasing the risk of crashing a car is OK, because we'll have airbags.

What I'm saying is (unless you're PETA), the welfare and safety of your fellow human beings will trump most other things.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#346

Post by andrewstuart »

The plastics problem must be addressed by standardised, washable, refundable containers that manufacturers can package their products in and put a paper label on.

The packaging industry is creating an infinite flow of garbage and recycling is just the distraction that this industry creates to stop us being enraged at the unstoppable flow of garbage that it creates.

The idea of single use plastic wrappers for food or any other product must end.

Also the idea of destroyable/recyclable non-standard container sizes must end.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#347

Post by spullara »

Thought experiment. Does it actually make any sense to recycle things now that are going to last 100s or 1000s of years? Shouldn't we just landfill them and later, when we need them, and the technology is orders of magnitude better just go dig it up and recycle it then? Why recycle now?

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#348

Post by WalterBright »

victorhooi wrote: post #345
WalterBright wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see what your reply has to do with my comment.

You're saying the CO2 risk is OK, because they have oxygen masks. That's like saying, increasing the risk of crashing a car is OK, because we'll have airbags. What I'm saying is (unless you're PETA), the welfare and safety of your fellow human beings will trump most other things.

There's a reason the crew already has oxygen masks.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#349

Post by mrob »

bunderbunder wrote: post #290
ars wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CO2 would enter the food, and make it taste like a weird kind of seltzer. Is all the food air sealed?

CO2 doesn't really go into anything to any significant degree unless it's under pressure.

One exception: fermenting liquids can become super-saturated with CO2 even if fitted with an air-lock to vent the CO2 to atmospheric pressure. This might cause a rather messy surprise if you add powdered yeast nutrient to an ongoing fermentation and give it a lot of nucleation points.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#350

Post by lovetrump »

vmarshall23 wrote: post #152

This has long driven me crazy. I have a version of this argument with my wife every few weeks. I live in a city that has three bins: compost, landfill, and recycling, and overall the city (SF) does a really good job apparently of sorting trash. But if you want a system that doesn't break down if someone throws a handful of batteries in the compost bin, then someone or something somewhere still has to sort the trash s…

this is ridiculous... it should all be sorted at the waste facility...
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