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Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

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Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#311
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our recycle company specifically told us to throw pizza boxes in the recycling. I'm told there are some ways to still use it just not in making paper again.

They can probably be composted.

There could be concerns over potential toxins arising from the breakdown of the inks and adhesives used in making the boxes entering the food stream?

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#312

It's incredible that corporations are allowed to pump out massive quantities of single use plastic and then we blame the consumer for not recycling it. The idea that the solution is to change the habits of billions of people rather than enforce some rules on a few thousand companies is just crazy.

The entire packaging industry is ridiculous. For example: Why do garbage bags come in boxes or bags when they could be stored inside a garbage bag that's folded up properly to contain them?

A big part of the problem is consumer education, we're lazy by nature and marketing takes advantage of that, i've seen 3 peeled nectarines on a foil wrapped foam tray or tuna in metallized plastic pouches or srink-wrapped cucumbers or potatoes, my coworker bring his lunch on a foam tray everyday together with plastic fork and knife these are after discarded so he doesn't have to wash anything.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#313
post #278

I have no affiliation with the company Renewlogy (formerly PK Clean) in Salt Lake City, but they have a very interesting method for turning plastic into diesel fuel that is in use today: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900014582/utah-based-ren... The Chinese ban on plastics is not having a major impact in Salt Lake City, according to Sophia Nicholas, Salt Lake City sustainability department communications manager…

Unfortunately that article reads like a press release from "Renewlogy" and doesn't seem to have a complete basis in reality. In reality at present the area is facing a $900,000 increase in recycling costs largely because china isn't taking it anymore.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2018/06/26/curbside-...

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it is? We can dig some pretty deep holes. It may not be pretty but seems to work.

Im not sure if you correctly understand what the word "sustainable" means. X is sustainable IFF you can keep doing X forever and not have it kill you eventually. "Seems to work" is perhaps a sub-optimal policy objective.

There's absolutely nothing that you can do indefinitely and not have it kill you.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a big part of it and it's amazing that they get away with it. Case in point: Blue Apron. Blue Apron positioned itself as one of the more "recycle-friendly" food delivery services to try and fight the stigma against every delivery having bags upon bags of individually wrapped goods by providing recycling services. As a former Blue Apron customer, I loved that I could separate stuff out (hard plastic, soft…

I wouldn't be surprised if "Pack the box back up and burn a bunch more jet fuel sending it back to New York" turns out to be even worse than just sending it all to the landfill. Given that they require air mailing boxes full of (mostly, by weight) frozen liquids all over the place on a weekly basis, I'm not convinced that these meal kit services can ever be made sustainable. Compared to that cost, worrying about recy…

I wouldn't be surprised to see local distribution through grocery stores (whole foods/ralphs) dominate the subscription meal space over the next few years due to better distribution margins and economies of scale.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a big part of it and it's amazing that they get away with it. Case in point: Blue Apron. Blue Apron positioned itself as one of the more "recycle-friendly" food delivery services to try and fight the stigma against every delivery having bags upon bags of individually wrapped goods by providing recycling services. As a former Blue Apron customer, I loved that I could separate stuff out (hard plastic, soft…

I wouldn't be surprised if "Pack the box back up and burn a bunch more jet fuel sending it back to New York" turns out to be even worse than just sending it all to the landfill. Given that they require air mailing boxes full of (mostly, by weight) frozen liquids all over the place on a weekly basis, I'm not convinced that these meal kit services can ever be made sustainable. Compared to that cost, worrying about recy…

We subscribed to Terra’s Kitchen after trying a few services including Blue Apron and Freshly.

Terra’s Kitchen, in addition to using non-disposable, durable vessels and cold packs that you return, also pre-chops and pre-preps many of the ingredients so meal prep and cleanup is truly 20-30 mins, which is half the time (or less) than Blue Apron.

Here are the vessels they use: https://www.terraskitchen.com/how-it-works/

Highly recommend.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#317
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remind me again why the 'real cost' of plastic is higher than all the other garbage we put into landfill? I know there is something going on with microplastics or somesuch that I'm not up to date on, but I would have thought that sealing it in a big hole in the ground would be cheap, effective and safe.

One example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch A life cycle analysis might hypothetically conclude that landfills are a perfectly sustainable solution to plastic. Unfortunately a lot of this stuff makes it into the ocean instead where it will not biodegrade and will interfere with fisheries and ecosystems. Properly structured economic incentives and laws could solve this problem, as they have…

How much waste is making it from a landfill to the GPGP? I'd bet about 0% in the West. Studies have shown that most of the waste in the GPGP is from rivers in Asia.

In my town, it'd be cheaper/better for the environment to landfill all the waste instead of sending it overseas to be "recycled." Our city recently prohibited placing cardboard in the trash. Something I would have thought is easily broken down...

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#318
Fast Company published a good article [1] about the Precious Plastic effort [2] to spread open source DIY machines that recycle plastic. I hope someone helps them publish plans for a limonene-based styrofoam recycler as well, as that is supposedly a fairly simple reaction. Then agree upon standardized sizes, and manufacture bricks of plastic-encased styrofoam insulation, where the plastic casing is designed to interlock into near-airtight joints. Then pump out insulation for the housing of the co-op members helping, 4-5 feet thick, and you start creating near PassivHaus-grade insulation.

Use other plastics to create a mechanically interlocking building envelope perhaps, and thermal bridge isolation pieces, and you could drive ACH in the way building down.

Other uses for recycled plastics that would help those who are short on capital but long on sweat equity might include really large fan blades for whole room ceiling fans, shelving, storage boxes, body weight equipment like traveling rings, and playground equipment. All of these don't need to be sophisticated, and confer allow the capital-constrained to avoid having to use as much capital.

[1] https://www.fastcompany.com/40486883/these-diy-machines-let-...

[2] https://preciousplastic.com/en/index.html

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#319
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that famous Indian crying from litter on the highway campaign? It was funded by the packaging industry. It was part of a propaganda campaign (a.k.a public relations) by packaging company to place the blame on litter and non-reusable packaging on the consumer instead of the industry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koqNm_TgOZk

Looks exactly like the "Jaywalking" playbook: https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/the-invention-of-jaywalking-... EDIT: As an aside, the argument that buying a new car is waste always annoyed me. Maybe if I crushed my old car, but how does changing owners shorten the useable life of a car?

Ditto for smartphones. So what if I upgrade every year, when the device I had 5 years ago is still being used by someone else and is fine for their needs?

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#320
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be surprised if "Pack the box back up and burn a bunch more jet fuel sending it back to New York" turns out to be even worse than just sending it all to the landfill. Given that they require air mailing boxes full of (mostly, by weight) frozen liquids all over the place on a weekly basis, I'm not convinced that these meal kit services can ever be made sustainable. Compared to that cost, worrying about recy…

I wouldn't be surprised to see local distribution through grocery stores (whole foods/ralphs) dominate the subscription meal space over the next few years due to better distribution margins and economies of scale.

This is how it works where I lived in Europe. All the big grocery store chains have their own food subscription boxes, and instead of having it delivered home you can also just pick it up at your local supermarket on you way home from work.
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