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Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

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Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#71

Post by jakobegger »

dwighttk wrote: post #26
idbehold wrote: post #8

Perhaps we should start doing something like what Taiwan did with their trash: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/separation-anxiety/ > The trucks only accept trash bags officially sanctioned by the government of Taiwan which come in a distinctive blue color, complete with an official seal. The bags range in price and size, from 3 liters to 120 liters. The most popular bag is 25 liters (similar to a tiny bathroom…

If 25 Liters is a “tiny” bathroom trash can I shudder to think what is used in the kitchen.

Right. We put 3 liter bags into our tiny bathroom trash can, and 25 liter bags into the big kitchen trash can.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#72

Post by dang »

njarboe wrote: post #67

Comment from a similar recent thread ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17359807 ) Modern dumps are sealed very well and can hold huge amounts. At $50 a ton we will never run out of space. Put everything in the dump. Plastic, green waste, garbage, paper, electronics, etc. Sort out pure metals like steel and aluminum. Do methane recovery on the pile and burn it for power. This will sequester a lot of carbon and at…

Please don't recycle comments from previous threads.

It's a fine comment, but HN threads are supposed to be conversations and we're trying to avoid repetition.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#73

Post by ryandrake »

VWrapper wrote: post #54

-snip, self-censorship for safety-

This is a good point. I’m reminded of a thread from yesterday: [1]. There are tons of places where nobody gives a single crap about waste disposal. The sides of the roads are literal trash heaps. “The West” is not going to solve this global problem by making everyone sort their trash into 10 different bins. It needs to stop at the source: the companies producing all this waste (mostly discarded packaging).

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17403526

EDIT: updated for the sensitive

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#74

Post by mikec3010 »

idbehold wrote: post #8

Perhaps we should start doing something like what Taiwan did with their trash: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/separation-anxiety/ > The trucks only accept trash bags officially sanctioned by the government of Taiwan which come in a distinctive blue color, complete with an official seal. The bags range in price and size, from 3 liters to 120 liters. The most popular bag is 25 liters (similar to a tiny bathroom…

Now you doubled CO2 emissions of your fleet and incentivize people to litter or dump in public trash cans.

A better solution would be human or robotic waste sorting at the dump, or clean incineration.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#75

Post by glenneroo »

organsnyder wrote: post #30
r00fus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets start with the supply chain. Don't just dump this on consumers. I want to see less individually plastic wrapped/boxed fruit.

Consumers are at fault there, too. If people didn't buy it, companies wouldn't produce it. Consumers need to be disincentivized from purchasing such wasteful products.

Easy if there were more alternatives. Most products are packaged in plastic with no alternatives. I recently saw a shop which is committed to selling everything in open crates (fruits/veggies - bring your own bags) or using only 100% recyclable materials (glass, paper or biodegradable plastic).

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#76

Post by Reedx »

r00fus wrote: post #64
organsnyder wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers are at fault there, too. If people didn't buy it, companies wouldn't produce it. Consumers need to be disincentivized from purchasing such wasteful products.

Consumers are limited because suppliers (in aggregate) often control the market. If all the stores supply wasteful products, what are your options. If you're a store and you have limited options on what you can sell (because all the suppliers have wasteful packaging) what are your options? The problem (plastic junk) comes from the supply-side. It doesn't really help consumers for the most part - heck I think most wou…

Granted, it should be attacked from all sides, but how much of that do consumers actually need?

It's possible (not easy, nor very practical let's say) to have almost zero waste if you're really dedicated. This is 4 years worth of trash that fits in a mason jar: https://youtu.be/BxKfpt70rLI?t=30s

So making a pretty sizable reduction even as things are should be doable.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#77

Post by ryandrake »

detaro wrote: post #28
oldcynic wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Targets the wrong place. It may reduce contamination of recycling streams, but does nothing to encourage less production. Perhaps a combination approach: $5 for a pack of small bin liners, or return your waste to the shop for free. If Tesco were filled with piles of consumer waste given back to them I posit the problem would be on the way to being solved within weeks.

In Germany we had rules that shops have to take back packaging, but especially with online shops this just wasn't used enough, so now the shop or manufacturer has to pay a (weight-based) fee for all the packaging they give to consumers. Pretty small though from what I've heard.

I’d be in favor of requiring manufacturers to take back unneeded product packaging, paying for postage if necessary.

EDIT: Reading more of this thread, it looks like everyone is suggesting this, so my comment does not add much.

So why is this obvious solution not implemented?

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#78

Post by [deleted] »

ryandrake wrote: post #73
VWrapper wrote: post #54

-snip, self-censorship for safety-

This is a good point. I’m reminded of a thread from yesterday: [1]. There are tons of places where nobody gives a single crap about waste disposal. The sides of the roads are literal trash heaps. “The West” is not going to solve this global problem by making everyone sort their trash into 10 different bins. It needs to stop at the source: the companies producing all this waste (mostly discarded packaging). 1: https:/…

[deleted]

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#79

Post by Rovanion »

DisruptiveDave wrote: post #60
jdavis703 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say yes it is a good use of our time. I really want ours to be the generation that stops punting problems out to the next generation. I'd be happy if my friend's children don't need to grow up worrying about how to deal with oceans filled with plastics, global warming induced fire storms and flooded coastal cities.

Isn't our generation the most overworked, least-amount-of-free-time one? How does this extra job fit into that major issue?

By exercising other parts of your brain you let those used for work recover.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#80

Post by thaumasiotes »

protonimitate wrote: post #5
0xcafecafe wrote: post #3

Hence it is always important to remember: reduce, reuse and recycle, in that order. You don't have to recycle if you can reuse.

While I agree with that order of operations so to speak, I'm not sure why the responsibility is pushed onto consumers. It's hard to make a choice when it comes down to plastic, plastic, or plastic. What is being/can be done to get companies to stop using plastic in packaging? I understand that it is necessary for a lot of modern conveniences, but surely there is something that can be done to curb the production and u…

> What is being/can be done to get companies to stop using plastic in packaging?

On the "is being done" front, order stuff from the Amazon Basics line, which packages everything in (1) cardboard that is (2) easy to open without slicing your own fingers.

Products sold at retail are purposefully put in huge plastic envelopes that are nearly impossible to open. This serves two goals related to preventing shoplifting - the thief can't get the tiny item out of its packaging while in the store, and the packaging is too large to carry out of the store without being obvious. It's all downside for customers.

But selling goods by mail-order doesn't have shoplifting problems, so shippers are free to use packaging that's less likely to injure the customer. The catch is that you need to buy something that is never intended to be sold retail anywhere.

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