Live data from Hacker News

Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

bloomberg.com

61–70 of 460 posts

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#61
post #46

I have single stream recycling and the shit that people put into it is ridiculous sometimes. Greasy pizza boxes are a popular one.

In Minneapolis, greasy pizza boxes specifically go in organics recycling (aka "municipal compost"). Chicken bones and dairy products too - It's amazing what you can put in there. http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/solid-waste/organics/index.h...

Huh, everywhere I've lived has specifically excluded pizza boxes.

I just checked our website again, and the flyer I remember seeing is gone, replaced with one that says pizza boxes are recyclable now. "No food residue. No liner." Accompanied by a picture of a clearly never used pizza box.

So now I'm not sure. Is oil soaked into it OK as long as you scrape every last bit of solid food out of it? Do you need no food residue (literally impossible), or is a small amount acceptable? I'm more informed than when I started, but still uncertain.

Apparently we can't recycle shredded paper, that's news to me. This list is now standardized across all of Connecticut. You can search an item and see what to do with it.

http://www.recyclect.com/

>You can put your pizza box in recycling if it does not contain food residue. The liner should go in the trash.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#62
post #8

Perhaps we should start doing something like what Taiwan did with their trash: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/separation-anxiety/ > The trucks only accept trash bags officially sanctioned by the government of Taiwan which come in a distinctive blue color, complete with an official seal. The bags range in price and size, from 3 liters to 120 liters. The most popular bag is 25 liters (similar to a tiny bathroom…

Japan has a similar bag system too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv68j5KQUU4

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#63
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Vancouver we have standardized waste bins which come in different sizes, and the amount you pay the city annually for waste collection depends on the size of bin you choose. (Recyclables are handled separately and there's no charge for them regardless of the volume you're leaving for collection.)

This system is a great incentive for people to put all sorts of stuff into recycling that they shouldn't.

I'm not sure what it's like in Vancouver, but in Niagara Falls if the garbage people see something in your recycle bins that isn't supposed to be there they don't pick up the bin and leave a note saying what was wrong.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#64
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets start with the supply chain. Don't just dump this on consumers. I want to see less individually plastic wrapped/boxed fruit.

Consumers are at fault there, too. If people didn't buy it, companies wouldn't produce it. Consumers need to be disincentivized from purchasing such wasteful products.

Consumers are limited because suppliers (in aggregate) often control the market.

If all the stores supply wasteful products, what are your options. If you're a store and you have limited options on what you can sell (because all the suppliers have wasteful packaging) what are your options?

The problem (plastic junk) comes from the supply-side. It doesn't really help consumers for the most part - heck I think most would prefer fruit that was local (all else being equal).

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#65
This is a classic externality problem. We can berate consumers all day long to be more diligent in their recycling, but all that finger wagging is for show meant to distract from the real source of the garbage, the manufacturers.

Just like the classic "blame the user" mentality, the users were given an impossibly complex system with barely any incentive to get it right. Nothing about the interface is intuitive or discoverable.

The creators of all this garbage do so because it's profitable. They can create disposable and single use items, in thousands of variations, out of materials that create hundreds of years of environmental impact, and none of that consequence comes back to their bottom line. They'll happily point the finger all day long at us stupid users and inept local governments and bad China, as long as it all distracts from their culpability.

If we forced all producers of trash to account for its safe reuse, recycling or disposal as part of the cost of doing business, this problem would disappear quickly. Because here's the thing, the bill always comes due. If we let them skip out on it, then we will be the ones who pay.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#66
post #8

Perhaps we should start doing something like what Taiwan did with their trash: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/separation-anxiety/ > The trucks only accept trash bags officially sanctioned by the government of Taiwan which come in a distinctive blue color, complete with an official seal. The bags range in price and size, from 3 liters to 120 liters. The most popular bag is 25 liters (similar to a tiny bathroom…

These kinds of punitive policies have a very obvious side-effect. You dump the garbage in a ravine or stream, or somewhere easy to dump. And so what if you get caught. You get fined a few hundred dollars, where you saved 5x that by dumping. The problem with recycling is it's recycling... There's a reason why the phrase is "Reduce, Reuse, and finally Recycle". The upstream firms are Reducing their costs with little re…

This. Where I used to live the only scrap yard would only accept nonferrous metals and the towns would charge for scrap metal. Washing machines on the side of the road was a routine sight, or it was until a new scrap yard that would accept just about anything metal opened up.

edit: I'm struggling to wrap my mind around why this is getting down-voted. I'm providing a real world example of the behavior the person I'm replying to described. I'm not endorsing dumping things on the side of the road. Do people seriously not believe that above a certain price point people will illegally dump their trash and risk the fine?

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#67
Comment from a similar recent thread (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17359807)

Modern dumps are sealed very well and can hold huge amounts. At $50 a ton we will never run out of space. Put everything in the dump. Plastic, green waste, garbage, paper, electronics, etc. Sort out pure metals like steel and aluminum. Do methane recovery on the pile and burn it for power. This will sequester a lot of carbon and at some point these dumps are likely to be mined as ore bodies. People can compost at their home if they like, but moving all this green waste around is costly and causes many plant diseases to spread much more quickly. Not to mention how horrible it is to get a load of chipped wood to put on your yard that has poison oak mixed in. We don't really need this little ritual of recycling to cleanse us of our consumerism sins. If we are really trying to help the environment, reduce, repair, and reuse is much more effective. Buy high quality stuff that lasts a long time.

Edit: Another bonus is that you and your neighbors only have to be woken up early once a week by the one garbage truck that comes by instead of three times with the current separate garbage, recycling, green waste trucks.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#68
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some recyclables are really valuable (metal, quality cardboard), but others that we really want to recycle aren't particularly (plastics, glass). Also, morons throw shocking amounts of obvious trash into the recycling stream, which is a huge pain for recyclers, and thus can significantly devalue what should otherwise be a profitable stream of recycling.

What's obvious trash? I look at the labeling on recycling and compost cans in my area and I honestly have no clue what I can recycle and what I can't. My choices are to throw away potential recyclables or recycle trash. People aren't morons, you've just built a bad system. And to clarify, I'm talking about recycling bins in fast food restaurants and grocery store delis. I've got a pile of used paper and plastic that…

There's ambiguous stuff to be sure. But I'm talking about people who throw food scraps, furniture, car tires, ash, bbq coals, construction debris, etc in the recycling. Yes, I've seen all of those things go into the recycling bins and more.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#69
post #6

I used to live in central New Jersey, where the people of Waste Management would send out quarterly fliers telling people "When in doubt throw it out"[0] I now live in Seattle, and when I tell people this campaign, they get extremely preachy and judgmental. Then when I try to explain that no, it's actually better for the environment, things really go no where. I should probably just give up on that. [0] http://www.ha…

> I now live in Seattle, and when I tell people this campaign, they get extremely preachy and judgmental.

Seattle and the region have been leading recyclers for decades. Waste Management sends a similar brochure to King County residents: http://wmnorthwest.com/kingcounty/calendars/guidelines.pdf

Post reply on HN