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Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

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Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#51

Post by gascan »

samatman wrote: post #43

Startup I will never get around to: A store which sells only bulk and fresh food, and durable containers: mesh bags, Mason jars, glass bottles. Every container, dispenser, and display has a scale, and unlocks with a nearfield chip. Enter the store, tap phone or insert chip card, get a card. Fill up your cart, stick the card back into the slot, get charged, done. One customer service kiosk for buying back clean contai…

Depending on where you live, it might already (mostly) exist, minus the NFC part.

Grocery co-op in my area has a big back room of bulk goods, sells durable containers too, run by hippies and has been around for decades.

The real hurdles with selling bulk & having customers reuse containers is handling tare smoothly and getting customers to remember to bring their containers.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#52

Post by toss1 »

I try to reuse some significant parts of our packaging stream, such as 1Kg yogurt containers, bringing them to the shop to use for mixing epoxy instead of buying mix cups.

Since I thought of recycling as having a high reuse rate (so having the hope that each bit of plastic might get used more than 2x), I used to think that this was a poor substitute and felt a bit bad about it.

Since reading a number of articles like this, I feel much better about it, since this material is at least getting 200% of the original use, which seems considerably greater than the actual recycling re-use rates.

So, reuse > recycling, yay!

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#53

Post by jdietrich »

idbehold wrote: post #8

Perhaps we should start doing something like what Taiwan did with their trash: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/separation-anxiety/ > The trucks only accept trash bags officially sanctioned by the government of Taiwan which come in a distinctive blue color, complete with an official seal. The bags range in price and size, from 3 liters to 120 liters. The most popular bag is 25 liters (similar to a tiny bathroom…

Norway and the Netherlands are successfully trialling waste-to-energy with carbon capture. If some waste cannot be economically recycled, why not use it as fuel for electricity generation?

We're still going to need some amount of fossil fuels for the foreseeable future. A yoghurt pot or a pizza box might not be recyclable using current processes, but it's perfectly good fuel.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187661021... http://www.vivis.de/phocadownload/Download/2017_eaa/2017_EaA...

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#55

Post by slavik81 »

jdavis703 wrote: post #37
aeternus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is careful sorting of trash/recycling really a good use of time? Seems better to put that effort towards development of techniques to sort en-masse. Likely controversial, but I think there is also an argument for simply throwing hard-to-recycle items in a landfill. If consumption continues to increase, it will likely become economically viable to eventually mine those landfills for raw materials.

I'd say yes it is a good use of our time. I really want ours to be the generation that stops punting problems out to the next generation. I'd be happy if my friend's children don't need to grow up worrying about how to deal with oceans filled with plastics, global warming induced fire storms and flooded coastal cities.

I'm pretty careful about following my city's recyling guidelines, but I don't think recycling is always the right way to handle a material. It doesn't neccessary solve the problems you mentioned.

Improperly sorted plastics are burried in a landfill. They will not fill the ocean with plastic whether recycled or trashed. Global warming is mostly a matter of energy usage, so recycling only helps that when it's more energy-efficient than the alternative.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#56

Post by njarboe »

cperciva wrote: post #32
idbehold wrote: post #8

Perhaps we should start doing something like what Taiwan did with their trash: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/separation-anxiety/ > The trucks only accept trash bags officially sanctioned by the government of Taiwan which come in a distinctive blue color, complete with an official seal. The bags range in price and size, from 3 liters to 120 liters. The most popular bag is 25 liters (similar to a tiny bathroom…

In Vancouver we have standardized waste bins which come in different sizes, and the amount you pay the city annually for waste collection depends on the size of bin you choose. (Recyclables are handled separately and there's no charge for them regardless of the volume you're leaving for collection.)

This system is a great incentive for people to put all sorts of stuff into recycling that they shouldn't.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#57

Post by virusduck »

idbehold wrote: post #8

Perhaps we should start doing something like what Taiwan did with their trash: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/separation-anxiety/ > The trucks only accept trash bags officially sanctioned by the government of Taiwan which come in a distinctive blue color, complete with an official seal. The bags range in price and size, from 3 liters to 120 liters. The most popular bag is 25 liters (similar to a tiny bathroom…

We have the pay-as-you-throw waste model in my city in GA. I think it works very well. We also have a very liberal recycling policy. I think these things really changed my family's trash habits for the better.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#58

Post by ryandrake »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #23
oldcynic wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Targets the wrong place. It may reduce contamination of recycling streams, but does nothing to encourage less production. Perhaps a combination approach: $5 for a pack of small bin liners, or return your waste to the shop for free. If Tesco were filled with piles of consumer waste given back to them I posit the problem would be on the way to being solved within weeks.

> If Tesco were filled with piles of consumer waste given back to them I vaguely remember seeing something about this happening in Germany where households are charged by the amount of rubbish that has to be collected. So people unwrap things in the shop and leave the packaging behind.

Honestly, companies really ought to be charged for the disposal of all that packaging they choke their products with. There seems to be no back pressure stopping manufacturers from wrapping a 10g USB stick in 400g of plastic packaging/advertising.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#59

Post by jschwartzi »

gascan wrote: post #47
gaius wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which costs about $5 for a pack of 20 I’ve never understood why recycling wasn’t self-sustaining, isn’t there value in the raw material? When I was young reusing was the thing; a glass milk bottle went back to the dairy was sterilised and used again the next day. One bottle, with a recyclable aluminium foil lid, could be used again and again and again. Nowadays we make a glass bottle, use it once, then melt it down a…

Some recyclables are really valuable (metal, quality cardboard), but others that we really want to recycle aren't particularly (plastics, glass). Also, morons throw shocking amounts of obvious trash into the recycling stream, which is a huge pain for recyclers, and thus can significantly devalue what should otherwise be a profitable stream of recycling.

What's obvious trash? I look at the labeling on recycling and compost cans in my area and I honestly have no clue what I can recycle and what I can't. My choices are to throw away potential recyclables or recycle trash. People aren't morons, you've just built a bad system.

And to clarify, I'm talking about recycling bins in fast food restaurants and grocery store delis. I've got a pile of used paper and plastic that I just ate off of. What of it can I recycle? The labels are usually either out of date or incomplete or both. And none of the plastics have discernible labeling to help.

It's basically the worst system I can imagine.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#60

Post by DisruptiveDave »

jdavis703 wrote: post #37
aeternus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is careful sorting of trash/recycling really a good use of time? Seems better to put that effort towards development of techniques to sort en-masse. Likely controversial, but I think there is also an argument for simply throwing hard-to-recycle items in a landfill. If consumption continues to increase, it will likely become economically viable to eventually mine those landfills for raw materials.

I'd say yes it is a good use of our time. I really want ours to be the generation that stops punting problems out to the next generation. I'd be happy if my friend's children don't need to grow up worrying about how to deal with oceans filled with plastics, global warming induced fire storms and flooded coastal cities.

Isn't our generation the most overworked, least-amount-of-free-time one? How does this extra job fit into that major issue?
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