Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve • Hacker News Board

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#11

Post by leeter » Wed, Jun 27, 2018, 6:04 PM UTC

blang wrote: post #6

I used to live in central New Jersey, where the people of Waste Management would send out quarterly fliers telling people "When in doubt throw it out"[0] I now live in Seattle, and when I tell people this campaign, they get extremely preachy and judgmental. Then when I try to explain that no, it's actually better for the environment, things really go no where. I should probably just give up on that. [0] http://www.ha…

We used to have separate stream recycling here... it was actually easier, you put glass and metal in one bin, I believe 1&2s in the next and 3s in the third, everything else was tossed.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#12

Post by oldcynic » Wed, Jun 27, 2018, 6:07 PM UTC

idbehold wrote: post #8

Perhaps we should start doing something like what Taiwan did with their trash: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/separation-anxiety/ > The trucks only accept trash bags officially sanctioned by the government of Taiwan which come in a distinctive blue color, complete with an official seal. The bags range in price and size, from 3 liters to 120 liters. The most popular bag is 25 liters (similar to a tiny bathroom…

Targets the wrong place. It may reduce contamination of recycling streams, but does nothing to encourage less production.

Perhaps a combination approach: $5 for a pack of small bin liners, or return your waste to the shop for free.

If Tesco were filled with piles of consumer waste given back to them I posit the problem would be on the way to being solved within weeks.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#13

Post by pmiller2 » Wed, Jun 27, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

jaggederest wrote: post #10

I'm always confused why we aren't pyrolyzing refuse and reusing the hydrocarbons in them. It's energetically and monetarily expensive, but both costs are more or less paid for by the output products and input products, as far as I am aware. And you get out fairly high quality fuels.

My guess is that you may end up with more than just hydrocarbons, and then you have to dispose of those waste byproducts. You certainly wouldn't do this to electronic waste, but, perhaps, if you could guarantee a pure stream of plastics, you could make it work.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#14

Post by DisruptiveDave » Wed, Jun 27, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

Glyptodon wrote: post #7

I think I could handle one bin for plastic, one bin for metal+glass, one bin for paper. Anything more complicated I don't really trust myself do right without a lot of vigilance. And I've heard that things as typical as staples in the cardboard/paper stream ruin everything cost-wise, which makes it all seem sort of lost-cause-ish.

At one point in NYC we had to use four - FOUR - different bins. In a tiny ass apartment. And still, there were so many damn edge cases that I gave up. Sorry, but I have a full time job and plenty to do outside of work. Make the recycling process easy on my end and I'll do it. Make it ridiculously complicated and I won't.

Honest question - at what point do my tax dollars cap out and the onus gets put back on me? Might be naive, but I always wanted to know the answer.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#15

Post by gaius » Wed, Jun 27, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

idbehold wrote: post #8

Perhaps we should start doing something like what Taiwan did with their trash: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/separation-anxiety/ > The trucks only accept trash bags officially sanctioned by the government of Taiwan which come in a distinctive blue color, complete with an official seal. The bags range in price and size, from 3 liters to 120 liters. The most popular bag is 25 liters (similar to a tiny bathroom…

which costs about $5 for a pack of 20

I’ve never understood why recycling wasn’t self-sustaining, isn’t there value in the raw material?

When I was young reusing was the thing; a glass milk bottle went back to the dairy was sterilised and used again the next day. One bottle, with a recyclable aluminium foil lid, could be used again and again and again. Nowadays we make a glass bottle, use it once, then melt it down and make a slightly different bottle, and we think that’s green!

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#16

Post by gandreani » Wed, Jun 27, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

idbehold wrote: post #8

Perhaps we should start doing something like what Taiwan did with their trash: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/separation-anxiety/ > The trucks only accept trash bags officially sanctioned by the government of Taiwan which come in a distinctive blue color, complete with an official seal. The bags range in price and size, from 3 liters to 120 liters. The most popular bag is 25 liters (similar to a tiny bathroom…

Holy moly! Thirteen bins!!

Still not clear how people are prevented from throwing garbage into the recycle bins. Is the recyclable stuff not placed in bags and therefore easy to be vetted by the staff?

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#17

Post by retbull » Wed, Jun 27, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

blang wrote: post #6

I used to live in central New Jersey, where the people of Waste Management would send out quarterly fliers telling people "When in doubt throw it out"[0] I now live in Seattle, and when I tell people this campaign, they get extremely preachy and judgmental. Then when I try to explain that no, it's actually better for the environment, things really go no where. I should probably just give up on that. [0] http://www.ha…

I've had this fight with my roommate here in Seattle as well. He obsesses over which thing goes into our recycle bin. Trashing it fixes a lot of the overhead and you can always recycle glass/metal easily.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#18

Post by hinkley » Wed, Jun 27, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

blang wrote: post #6

I used to live in central New Jersey, where the people of Waste Management would send out quarterly fliers telling people "When in doubt throw it out"[0] I now live in Seattle, and when I tell people this campaign, they get extremely preachy and judgmental. Then when I try to explain that no, it's actually better for the environment, things really go no where. I should probably just give up on that. [0] http://www.ha…

Method cleaning products was usually a little understated about their environmental bent.

One particular time they got loud was when they created a non-recyclable package for refills for their hand soap and dish soap dispensers.

From memory, they looked at the net recovery rate for the material they were considering, and it was something like 30% after inputs. But they could engineer a durable water tight material that was less than 20% of the thickness of the recyclable version, and which packed better meaning lower shipping costs (and resources).

And given that these were for refills (Reuse!), they felt fully justified in making disposable packaging. But apparently a little defensive...

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#19

Post by aaron_oxenrider » Wed, Jun 27, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #9

I have single stream recycling and the shit that people put into it is ridiculous sometimes. Greasy pizza boxes are a popular one.

Our recycle company specifically told us to throw pizza boxes in the recycling. I'm told there are some ways to still use it just not in making paper again.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#20

Post by crankylinuxuser » Wed, Jun 27, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

idbehold wrote: post #8

Perhaps we should start doing something like what Taiwan did with their trash: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/separation-anxiety/ > The trucks only accept trash bags officially sanctioned by the government of Taiwan which come in a distinctive blue color, complete with an official seal. The bags range in price and size, from 3 liters to 120 liters. The most popular bag is 25 liters (similar to a tiny bathroom…

These kinds of punitive policies have a very obvious side-effect. You dump the garbage in a ravine or stream, or somewhere easy to dump. And so what if you get caught. You get fined a few hundred dollars, where you saved 5x that by dumping.

The problem with recycling is it's recycling... There's a reason why the phrase is "Reduce, Reuse, and finally Recycle".

The upstream firms are Reducing their costs with little regard to reducing environmental impact.

The upstream firms guarantee you can't reuse - it's a missed sale.

So, you percolate through the layers, and then recycling is this all important thing.