Live data from Hacker News

Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

thehustle.co

371–380 of 471 posts

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a boombox?

For those of a certain age (I guess).... Its a radio player with speakers. Usually battery powered. Usually with a cassette tape or two (for copying). They ended up getting pretty big in the 80s (large in size) with detachable speakers. We had the small yellow waterproof, sony sport model.[1] I think one even had a record player. At some point loud portable stereos migrated into cars. Now we just transmit audio to po…

This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boombox#/media/File:Chicago_Pr...

Was a an absolutely ubiquitous scene during summers in my childhood.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#372
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freakonomics podcast did an episode on it: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/mattress-store-bubble/ That's also exactly why Casper and a half dozen other upstarts have come out with the memory-foam mailed-to-you-in-a-vacuum-tube online mattress sales.

The conclusion of the podcast was "If you spend $800 you're probably safe, below that it's hard to know if it's good or awful. Above $1500 is too much."

Considering Marriott/Hilton/IHG requires their hotels to use a 10 year warrantied mattress that only costs $250-$300 each, I'd say even $800 is too high. Even though that's wholesale price, doubling should be enough to get a single unit price.

People would be better off investing in some HIIT cardio excercise if they're looking for a good night's sleep. And eating less / more nutritious food.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#373
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the investments no normal person with a healthy common sense would even consider to invest in. So if you see "timeshare" and are not dropping the flyer into the trash can, that already says that you are open to getting screwed over. It's like the "African prince died, gives you $10 mio if you give us your credit card details". That said, there is nearly no game or investment that doesn't at least have…

So in practice, I know this is true, but in principle, splitting a vacation property 52 ways so that everyone gets one week a year actually seems pretty reasonable. Why is it that these things are always scams?

I have good news and bad news. The bad news is, your uncle in Nigeria died. Want to know the good news before or after you give me your credit card details?

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#374
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roping the unsuspecting into an incredibly expensive time-share using hard-sell boiler-room tactics without ever being up-front about the true costs. I sat through one of these once, curious about how it was going to go, and with the intent going in of not ever buying anything anyway. They present the timeshare as if it costs only pennies a day, and never admit to the true cost unless pressed very hard (and even then…

Hint if you ever attend one: turn to your partner after the introduction and say "I don't know honey, we would have to sell the RV". They know that people with a RV rarely buy so they are much more willing to stop wasting their time. The other option is go on vacation, send your parents to the presentation, and you take the freebies. This worked for a friend of mine- his parents old/disabled enough that they couldn't…

I'm not sure how anyone can enjoy the presentation. Our presentation quickly devolved into insinuation, badgering, bullying, intimidation and finally: outright insults.

It doesn't make economic sense, but once they find out your not going to buy it, they spend the rest of the time making you'r experience as horrible and stressful as possible. Perhaps to dissuade others from doing what you just mentioned.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#375
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roping the unsuspecting into an incredibly expensive time-share using hard-sell boiler-room tactics without ever being up-front about the true costs. I sat through one of these once, curious about how it was going to go, and with the intent going in of not ever buying anything anyway. They present the timeshare as if it costs only pennies a day, and never admit to the true cost unless pressed very hard (and even then…

I went to one of the Wyndham presentations a couple years back, partially for the free (albeit shitty) breakfast, free tickets to a local attraction (actually somewhat valuable) and to observe the sales pitch. I came away similarly impressed. They used a lot of tactics like personal vacation stories, highly suspect financial calculations and so forth. But the one I was most impressed by was getting people in the habi…

Unless you signed something stating that you agreed to pay for the tickets, why wouldn't you just walk way and do a charge back?

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#376
post #215

About 30 years ago in Australia There was a competition at the local shopping centre. Spend $20 at any shop in the centre, show your receipt and you get a chance to win the displayed car. The chance involved folding a paper plane, and then trying to get it into the car through the sunroof. Which was only open a small crack. A friend of the family tried about 5 times over the day and never got close. They came back qu…

There are companies that specialize in insuring risks like that. It is a whole sub industry of insuring unlikely to win contests. https://www.holeinoneinsurance.com/how-much-does-it-cost.htm...

A few years ago I was in charge of monitoring a hole in one contest for a golf tournament.

Anyone who got a hole in one was to receive $10,000. All I had to do was hang out in the shade and not get killed from golf balls while watching everyone's attempts.

I asked the tournament official where that 10k comes from, and he said from an insurance agency. They paid $200 insurance. No one ended up getting a hole in one that day.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#377
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an individual authenticating callers is difficult. I recently had someone claiming to be from the ATO (Australian Taxation Office) call and ask me to identify myself. Not surprising, my tax filing is overdue. I advised them as a security policy I do not give out PII to unauthenticated callers, asked for a reference number and a return phone number. The number I was given is not listed on the ATO website so I did n…

I've had my bank call me at work because I forgot to pay my credit card off the day after it was due. No callerid info, just a number. The woman on the phone didn't say who she was, who she was calling from, she just immediately asked me if this was blahblah. My work has been the subject of a bunch of scammers calling about financial services lately so I wasn't too keen on saying who I was. I kept asking her who she…

Etiquette from a bank is like water from a stone. Consider moving your accounts to a credit union.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#378
post #333
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roping the unsuspecting into an incredibly expensive time-share using hard-sell boiler-room tactics without ever being up-front about the true costs. I sat through one of these once, curious about how it was going to go, and with the intent going in of not ever buying anything anyway. They present the timeshare as if it costs only pennies a day, and never admit to the true cost unless pressed very hard (and even then…

I went to one of these many years ago just after finishing my degree. I explained to the guy laying on the sales pitch that I understood how interest rates worked and I had a masters degree in Computer Science. He said "you aren't the kind of person we're interested in, you can leave." Thanks for the free Vegas trip! I actually won some money that trip, so technically I walked away from the scam with a profit!

you got off easy. My wife and I made it abundantly clear that we we're falling for it (Software engineer and data analyst). They still spent another 2 hours making us feel as horrible as possible.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#379
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roping the unsuspecting into an incredibly expensive time-share using hard-sell boiler-room tactics without ever being up-front about the true costs. I sat through one of these once, curious about how it was going to go, and with the intent going in of not ever buying anything anyway. They present the timeshare as if it costs only pennies a day, and never admit to the true cost unless pressed very hard (and even then…

The real scam is the ongoing, monthly, maintenance fees on your 'timeshare'. Worldmark wanted $100 per month, per week of ownership, in a presentation I saw in Vegas. Which means that 52 weeks x $100 x 12 months = $62,400 per year in 'maintenance' on each unit. So even if you paid cash, they still get $62K per year in addition. This was Worldmark Vegas, buying a 'week' in a townhouse complex of $150,000 units. The mo…

I'm not sure if this is a complete "scam." I think it mostly works out as similar to the costs of typical hotels.

- I would assume the timeshare companies often have more supply of rooms than they have paying "owners." For example certain destinations are only desirable during part of the year when the weather is favorable. So they may not be making this full amount in the math above.

- They have regular expenses beyond the room maintenance itself: overall building maintenance, resort amenities, staffing, utilities, cable/tv, etc.

- For comparison: a simple $150 hotel room for example would be $150 x 365 = $54,750. Similar to the timeshare, this one may not be 100% booked, though I don't know what booking/ownership rates are for timeshares vs. hotel rooms. In any case many timeshare units may have one or multiple bedrooms, a kitchen, a living area, etc. whereas the $150 hotel room is probably just a sleeping area. So you are likely getting "more space" with the timeshare.

Admittedly, many timeshares are scams, I won't deny that. But the evidence you provided for this one is not completely indicative of that. It still may not be a "good deal" based on how you prefer to travel, and if it's not certainly don't partake in it.

To me spending $100 x 12 = $1200 per year for your housing on vacation is not completely unreasonable compared to $150 x 7 = $1050, considering the extra amenities and opportunity to save money by cooking in the unit. It doesn't make the timeshare a "steal of a deal" (like some of the presentations make it out to be) but rather more of a "prepaid vacation" which may make sense in some situations. It seems like a "legitimate business" in this case to me, assuming the up-front costs to buy in are not too crazy. Country Clubs have been using a similar structure of "buying in" + recurring fees since before the timeshare industry even existed, and presumably these country clubs are legitimate businesses as well. There are good and bad players in the timeshare industry, like is the case in so many other industries as well.

My parents are Worldmark owners, so I've done some analysis on that one in particular. There is a decent amount of flexibility (destination) and the units have seemed pretty well-equipped. In the math I've done it seems to work out to not necessarily make your vacation "cheaper" but it doesn't make it "more expensive" either. They like it because they get more space and a kitchen to cook some of their own meals, and they use it as encouragement to take vacations to destinations they otherwise would not have thought about (and have very much enjoyed).

The timeshare company in the article though is clearly a major scam though! I trust that most people on HN can take a look at the math to weigh what may be a good deal for their personal situation.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a furniture salesman here in Houston who makes heavy use of that sort of promotion. His latest if you spend $3,000 on a mattress and the Astros win the "2018 baseball final championship series" you'll be refunded the purchase price. Not sure why it's worded so formally; must be a legal thing.

I'm trying to recall the Mancini Mattress (Bay Area) ad -- something like "If we can't beat the price, the mattress is free!" I'm thinking ... ohhh... I bet they always somehow manage to beat the price!

Many stores will have custom SKU or model IDs, so a mattress that is physically identical and cheaper somewhere else is actually a different product per the paperwork...
Post reply on HN