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'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

theguardian.com

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Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#61

Post by pixelbash »

I work out of a very small studio in Auckland mostly building ecom (cofounder/dev). The reality is NZ is such a tiny market that is has a really funny quality to it (and some really odd stuff in places like an unspoken pay invoices on the 20th of the month rule). Two degrees of separation is the running joke here because just about anyone you hear about has met someone you know. We are doing an increasing amount of overseas work because in many ways it’s just easier, asides from Skyping at odd hours of the day.

I’d love for NZ to be the next Tech hub, but I fear the culture just isn’t there yet. It’s easy to start a company here but it’s very hard to locally source materials or tools at anything like competitive prices thanks to the 100% markup almost any importer puts on anything (if you can get it at all). Software at least doesn’t have that barrier, good developers here are generally very busy. That’s good I guess.

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#62

Post by monkeycantype »

ponzored wrote: post #31
doktrin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employees here are really tough on Chinese developers. Immigration is even tougher Can you elaborate on this? I'm just curious.

In New Zealand and Australia Indian and Chinese workers are essentially seen as replaceable due to the huge numbers of them migrating to both countries (those countries make up the #1 and #2 sources of migrants respectively). The whole point of the migration schemes are to get workers for cheap and to put downwards pressure on wages. A very high skill level is not really required, and big companies will just throw bo…

There many Indian Australian and Asian Australian developers, but there are also has many Indian and Chinese citizens working in Australia, employed by large contracting firms like TCS, on contacts under _Indian_ labor laws, with worse entitlements and in more vulnerable negotiating positions than their Australia co-workers. Some of these people are very highly skilled, they also get rotated out as they are useful for establishing teams with new clients. I work with many people who who have asked me, and others, to help lobby on there behalf to stay in their jobs, because they have been told by their contracting company that they will be moved, and if they refuse, their contract contains provisions that could force require them quit and pay back the previous three months pay. I struggle to believe this is legal under Australian law, but I am close to one developer who did this and chose to pay back three months pay rather than speak to a lawyer.

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#63

Post by oblio »

zinckiwi wrote: post #56
prebrov wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in NZ, but seriously considered it as a destination. I agree with you, the article has nothing to do with reality and is just wishful thinking or, more likely, a PR shill paid up by NZ's foreign promotion board or however they're called. Jacinda Ardern had a strong anti-immigration position during her campaign, she literally promised to cut immigration by 20'000-30'000 per year, from 70'000. No surprise that…

I'm generally pro-immigration, but with a population of less than 5 million and a housing affordability crisis, 70k a year simply isn't sustainable.

Isn't New Zealand hugely underpopulated? I fear that their real problem is elsewhere...

Just checked quickly:

* the UK: 65 million people, 242 000 sqkm -> crowded

* Romania: 19 million people, 238 000 sqkm -> not that crowded

* New Zealand: 4.8 million people, 268 000 sqkm -> it's definitely not overpopulated...

Edit: Heh, I also checked the density, it's the 203rd country in the world regarding population density. There's definitely a ton of space for people there, if the government wants it and is diligent about promoting construction of affordable housing.

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#64

Post by jpmoral »

ponzored wrote: post #31
doktrin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employees here are really tough on Chinese developers. Immigration is even tougher Can you elaborate on this? I'm just curious.

In New Zealand and Australia Indian and Chinese workers are essentially seen as replaceable due to the huge numbers of them migrating to both countries (those countries make up the #1 and #2 sources of migrants respectively). The whole point of the migration schemes are to get workers for cheap and to put downwards pressure on wages. A very high skill level is not really required, and big companies will just throw bo…

Can you explain why the government would want to depress wages?

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#65

Post by chiefalchemist »

madaxe_again wrote: post #9

They have a really odd way to attract tech talent.... I exited my startup in the uk two years ago, successfully, leaving a successful and growing technology business behind. I have several ideas which I am prepared to self-fund up to £0.5M, and want a good environment in which to start a new business. I know coders in NZ, and they’re a talented bunch, we began to hatch a plan. In short, the NZ gov’t don’t want it. Th…

Somewhere is a very rich (clueless) consultant who sold them that (bullshit) idea.

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#66

Post by hackerman12345 »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #48

I'm trying to get a job in New Zealand right now. In 2012 I was there on Working Holiday, and did a summer job writing control systems code for Fisher & Paykel Healthcare in Auckland. By 2014 I'd visited a few more countries and shortlisted destinations: New Zealand (Skilled Migrant Category), Canada (Express Entry), or Australia (subclass 186). Now I'm trying to apply, but most listings on Seek require already havin…

Mentioning your citizenship might help, certain countries look for certain groups (e.g. they have a satellite team in ___ where you speak the language, bonus!).

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#67

Post by oblio »

shankr wrote: post #58
ponzored wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just sign up for a degree at a degree mill and you'll get a student visa and an easy route to permanent residency. New Zealand (and Australia) don't care about quality migrants, just quantity, to keep up demand for housing (both countries have housing-bubble-based economies) and to add extra consumption to national GDP. The migrants they really want are Indians who can put downwards pressure on wages. Go to Auckland,…

Unless you have lived in Poland, Romania or Portugal, I wouldn't be so sure in suggesting these places. These countries have their own challenges starting from language barrier to inefficient bureaucracy. I don't think either of these countries are well-known for their tech quality either.

I don't know about Portugal, but both Romania and Poland have a well developed tech sector. They're not dumping grounds for projects (think Infosys & co).

But you're right that the bureaucracy is really bad right now...

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#68

Post by te_chris »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #48

I'm trying to get a job in New Zealand right now. In 2012 I was there on Working Holiday, and did a summer job writing control systems code for Fisher & Paykel Healthcare in Auckland. By 2014 I'd visited a few more countries and shortlisted destinations: New Zealand (Skilled Migrant Category), Canada (Express Entry), or Australia (subclass 186). Now I'm trying to apply, but most listings on Seek require already havin…

You've tried Vend, Xero, Auror etc? Look for the big local companies who have global offices.

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#69

Post by chiefalchemist »

phyalow wrote: post #20
madaxe_again wrote: post #9

They have a really odd way to attract tech talent.... I exited my startup in the uk two years ago, successfully, leaving a successful and growing technology business behind. I have several ideas which I am prepared to self-fund up to £0.5M, and want a good environment in which to start a new business. I know coders in NZ, and they’re a talented bunch, we began to hatch a plan. In short, the NZ gov’t don’t want it. Th…

>£10M turnover from nothing I dont understand why people quote turnover. It is a useless number.

Perhaps not useless but highly misleading without context. How many customers? How many employees? Any profit? All these would help.

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#70

Post by te_chris »

yarg wrote: post #50
prebrov wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in NZ, but seriously considered it as a destination. I agree with you, the article has nothing to do with reality and is just wishful thinking or, more likely, a PR shill paid up by NZ's foreign promotion board or however they're called. Jacinda Ardern had a strong anti-immigration position during her campaign, she literally promised to cut immigration by 20'000-30'000 per year, from 70'000. No surprise that…

There's a huge number of low skill immigrants in New Zealand, they don't really add that much to the country. I don't imagine that any restrictions on immigration would significantly impact skilled workers. That said, I don't understand why we would possibly have a requirement of VC involvement when the already money is there to actually do the work.

Because the VC's wrote the rules...
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