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Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

thehustle.co

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Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#91

Post by sueders101 »

fwdpropaganda wrote: post #64

> In the course of an hour on a Wednesday afternoon, 22 hopefuls fill out the digital form. Lets take this hour to be an average hour. Over 12 hours in a day that the mall is presumably open, that's 22*12 = 264 leads. > the mall isn’t behind these giveaways; they merely rent out the advertising space (for around $1.5k per day). This would imply that these leads need to be worth at least $1500/264 = $5.68 per lead. Do…

Don't forget to consider the revenue side of the equation. I imagine these promotions wouldn't exist if they didn't make money, for at least a few, business entities in the chain.

If they have:

0.3% conversion;

$25,000 average price;

20% margins

Which aren't unrealistic numbers for timeshares. They break even at $15 cost per lead when ignoring call center costs and other overhead. It's pretty easy to find people to work at an outbound call center for a campaign like this for $9-$12 an hour. (that's without looking offshore) There's also the possibility for additional revenue on customer financing and data resale.

When I was a very very broke college student, I worked on cold calling campaigns trying to set appointments to sell security systems. Now I do analytics for a a business that is happy with doing outbound dials on $20 CPL for largely semi-qualified leads. It ain't the most fulfilling work. But it does pay well and the owners have never, and will never take outside investment.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#92

Post by abrookewood »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #76
invalidusernam3 wrote: post #70

I remember a few years back walking on the beach with my dad and some similar time share scam people asked us if we wanted to enter a competition. We were handed two scratch cards with various prizes; cash, a holiday or the grand prize of a car. Obviously all the scratch cards were winners for the holiday. My dad scratched his card and said "Oh great, I won the car!" The scam guys eyes opened wide and he had a confus…

What the scam? "Free flight" if you buy the timeshare or something?

These are all through Bali. The scam is that you appear to win something, but really it is just to get you into a high pressure sales environment. So you go back to their office (where everyone is amazed that you won!) and then realise the prize is a tour of some holiday destination they want you to invest in etc.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#93

Post by [deleted] »

raverbashing wrote: post #72
drawkbox wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As mentioned by others, sweepstakes sponsors are required to report prizes awarded to US residents to the IRS if the value is $600 or more. For tax purposes some also choose report prizes of lower values especially if they are giving away lots of them that equal substantial value businesses expense out. I thought it was only the 15k prizes above gift tax but it was actually any prize for tax tracking. Lots of people…

Well this is solved by asking the SSN to redeem the prize, but not before the draw.

[deleted]

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#94

Post by vinceguidry »

drawkbox wrote: post #77
raverbashing wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well this is solved by asking the SSN to redeem the prize, but not before the draw.

As mentioned, this is only asked of winners to collect their prize, after the draw. If they won they must be contacted to verify and get info to send them the prize. Since it is a transfer of value, the SSN has to be known for the 1099 form that is required by the IRS after $600 in value being transferred. It is also required if the sponsor gives it as a gift, pays the tax portion and for the sponsor to expense it ou…

The solution I came up with is to have the winner come into a store location to claim their prize. They can see their brand new motorcycle, be told that to drive this away we need to report the gift to the IRS so they can collect their cut.

I think most people will give up the digits then.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#96

Post by vinceguidry »

m_fayer wrote: post #57
extradego wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, this is just how it’s done. I’m not exaggerating; this is business as usual . Penalizing this would be a catastrophe for Americans. I think the sheer volume of the tricks, lies, gimmicks and gotchas cause each one bleed into the next to the point of immersion. The shimmer of the spectacle and hope become one and the same. Because every day is just another swindle at the Big Bazaar Of Life.

A decade ago I would have thought your comment was over the top. Then I moved to Germany. And was surprised to find an utter lack of spammy phone calls, no crowd of ubiquitous scammers vying for my attention, no surprise mystery medical bills, nothing. I was with my German girlfriend in a department store once, she tore a little slip off the stockings she was buying, put her name and email on it, and dropped it into…

Good Lord, you're right. This sort of marketing could work, if Americans were more vigilant about punishing bad actors.

If someone in Germany tried an American-style scam, the sheer tangibility of the vision I have of angry Germans not effing stopping until the perps are put in jail is palpable.

Sadly, this seems to be a national attitude and those just don't seem to be transmissable.

Now I'm wondering whether Germany is the exception or the rule. I darn sure wouldn't want to trust anyone, say, in Russia. Not sure about Latin America though. Argentina might seem safe, but Mexico? Africa, mostly probably not.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#97

Post by matt_the_bass »

m_fayer wrote: post #57
extradego wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, this is just how it’s done. I’m not exaggerating; this is business as usual . Penalizing this would be a catastrophe for Americans. I think the sheer volume of the tricks, lies, gimmicks and gotchas cause each one bleed into the next to the point of immersion. The shimmer of the spectacle and hope become one and the same. Because every day is just another swindle at the Big Bazaar Of Life.

A decade ago I would have thought your comment was over the top. Then I moved to Germany. And was surprised to find an utter lack of spammy phone calls, no crowd of ubiquitous scammers vying for my attention, no surprise mystery medical bills, nothing. I was with my German girlfriend in a department store once, she tore a little slip off the stockings she was buying, put her name and email on it, and dropped it into…

That’s how it was when I was kid (in the US). Obviously not twitter selfies, but the equivalent at the time.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#98

Post by yodsanklai »

bkor wrote: post #69
beaconstudios wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for an alternative viewpoint, I'm from the UK and I see these car sweepstake scams all over the place. I think the region you're in has a strong impact on what the police's priorities are, due to different leadership.

> I'm from the UK[..] I think the region you're in has a strong impact on what the police's priorities are, due to different leadership. Totally agree! The few times I compare ads on television from Netherlands vs England the difference is huge. There's a huge amount of gambling advertisement in England. Advertising regarding something that's addicting is often quickly restricted in The Netherlands. Secondly the loan…

> If a lot of people get into money problems it'll affect everyone

This is called "negative externality". Another example is junk food. It does affect everyone when people are unhealthy (health care costs for instance).

> It is so strange that this is allowed.

I think the US have ruled that advertisement is protected by freedom of speech. Actually some people get extremely defensive when talking about restricting advertisement (nanny state argument...).

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#99

Post by pwg »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #76
invalidusernam3 wrote: post #70

I remember a few years back walking on the beach with my dad and some similar time share scam people asked us if we wanted to enter a competition. We were handed two scratch cards with various prizes; cash, a holiday or the grand prize of a car. Obviously all the scratch cards were winners for the holiday. My dad scratched his card and said "Oh great, I won the car!" The scam guys eyes opened wide and he had a confus…

What the scam? "Free flight" if you buy the timeshare or something?

Roping the unsuspecting into an incredibly expensive time-share using hard-sell boiler-room tactics without ever being up-front about the true costs.

I sat through one of these once, curious about how it was going to go, and with the intent going in of not ever buying anything anyway. They present the timeshare as if it costs only pennies a day, and never admit to the true cost unless pressed very hard (and even then they never quote a final figure). What they are really selling is a loan package for the purchase of the timeshare (where the timeshare company is themselves loan originator) with an attached interest rate of something like 12 or 13% APR (bank mortgages at the time I sat through the one I sat through were running about 3.5-4% APR). The timeshare, if you can squeeze a dollar figure out of them comes out to be about $40,000 for which they finance it for you at their 12-13% APR (so a gold mine for them, but bad for you).

I ended up getting the double-team effort (two trying to convince me to jump in) to try to sell me on the value of the scam before I had finally had enough and cut off the sales pitch. Meanwhile, all around me (they did the pitch in a large room with small tables where everyone was in view of everyone else) I was watching the gullible filling out their "loan applications" and setting themselves up for $500/month for the next ten to twenty years before they could pay off the 'loan'.

The cost, plus the interest, was setup such that one would be hard put to actually be able to go on enough vacations at the timeshare to actually make the timeshare profitable for the new owner. If one went on the number of vacations that are typical, one was setting oneself up for each vacation ultimately costing $25K+ (for what should have cost only about $2-3K). This, of course, was the intent of the group running the timeshare, hide the true cost enough that the gullible don't realize they are paying $25K for what should have cost them $3K, and pocket the difference as pure profit.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#100

Post by asfdsfggtfd »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #87
asfdsfggtfd wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think just call back on one of their listed numbers and explain.

It seems so obvious now you've pointed it out. I do like to over complicate things.

This is the advice given by banks and anti-fraud agencies. NB in some countries landlines can remain on a call for several minutes after the call receiver has hung up. A phisher will play a dial tone etc to make it seem realistic. The advice is to either wait 10 minutes (longer?) or preferably call back on another line if you receive a suspicious call.
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