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'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

theguardian.com

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Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#21

Post by johankmagnusson »

Why not reverse the immigration process? Instead of doing tremendous amounts of paper work after which the system takes a guess if you will be able to contribute to the country, run that process backwards instead and lower the threshold for IT professionals to enter NZ significantly and then they get to prove their worth.

Start with a very rudimentary initial screening and after say a 2 year trial period have a selection process based on what the person in question has accomplished. That way people get to prove themselves and what the can contribute with instead.

If you don't contribute, i.e. receive social welfare or similar, you're out. If you contribute by performing in the labour market, start an at least moderately successful business or similar you're in. I don't understand why all immigration systems don't work like this...

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#22

Post by cr1895 »

dwightgunning wrote: post #17
madaxe_again wrote: post #9

They have a really odd way to attract tech talent.... I exited my startup in the uk two years ago, successfully, leaving a successful and growing technology business behind. I have several ideas which I am prepared to self-fund up to £0.5M, and want a good environment in which to start a new business. I know coders in NZ, and they’re a talented bunch, we began to hatch a plan. In short, the NZ gov’t don’t want it. Th…

This is lame though to be fair to NZ I've come across similar requirements in other countries too. Over the years I've happened to be invited to discussions with policy makers in both The Netherlands (2013) and Australia (2016) and as far as I know they came up with similar policies. Further back I recall taking a look at Germany (~2012) and it was also onerous. The main takeaway I had was that constructing a set of…

For what it's worth, it's relatively simple for an American to open a business and gain residency in the Netherlands through the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty.

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#23

Post by fauigerzigerk »

phyalow wrote: post #20
madaxe_again wrote: post #9

They have a really odd way to attract tech talent.... I exited my startup in the uk two years ago, successfully, leaving a successful and growing technology business behind. I have several ideas which I am prepared to self-fund up to £0.5M, and want a good environment in which to start a new business. I know coders in NZ, and they’re a talented bunch, we began to hatch a plan. In short, the NZ gov’t don’t want it. Th…

>£10M turnover from nothing I dont understand why people quote turnover. It is a useless number.

It's not necessarily useless. It usually (not always) means that there is a useful product that someone is willing to pay for. Doesn't mean it's sustainable of course.

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#24

Post by viraptor »

johankmagnusson wrote: post #21

Why not reverse the immigration process? Instead of doing tremendous amounts of paper work after which the system takes a guess if you will be able to contribute to the country, run that process backwards instead and lower the threshold for IT professionals to enter NZ significantly and then they get to prove their worth. Start with a very rudimentary initial screening and after say a 2 year trial period have a selec…

I think this could get a bit cruel in a few ways.

- Who measures the performance and how? How is it scaled to compare a contractor for corps and a dev at a tiny startup?

- Who decides what's the fault of the employer vs employee? If you're either fired or quit due to terrible mismanagement, why wouldn't you use whatever welfare you can while looking for a new job?

- And if you want to get someone out of the country, how do you do that? Where exactly do you send them if they ran out of money and have no support network?

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#25

Post by 101km »

Wellington is like a smaller (and much more windy) San Francisco. Having just finished driving 12,000km tip-to-tip, that might be the one spot that's dense enough to amount to something.

I can't emphasize enough how rural the rest of this country is.

New Zealand is a victim of its success in tourism. Everything is geared towards that. Imagine living somewhere like Denver, CO but with SF prices and depressed software salaries. It's a wonderful place but even with all things being equal bureaucracy wise (and they aren't), the list of places ahead of Wellington is two miles long.

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#26

Post by modernerd »

johankmagnusson wrote: post #21

Why not reverse the immigration process? Instead of doing tremendous amounts of paper work after which the system takes a guess if you will be able to contribute to the country, run that process backwards instead and lower the threshold for IT professionals to enter NZ significantly and then they get to prove their worth. Start with a very rudimentary initial screening and after say a 2 year trial period have a selec…

This is essentially how freedom of movement in Europe works.

As an EU citizen I was able to move to another EU country, rent a flat, and then within 3 months had to prove that I had income to pay tax/social contributions. On passing that interview you get residency rights and continued access to public services and healthcare; I am still a “guest”, but can effectively stay indefinitely as long as I keep contributing and don't break the law.

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/explainers/what-eu-fr...

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#27

Post by avip »

johankmagnusson wrote: post #21

Why not reverse the immigration process? Instead of doing tremendous amounts of paper work after which the system takes a guess if you will be able to contribute to the country, run that process backwards instead and lower the threshold for IT professionals to enter NZ significantly and then they get to prove their worth. Start with a very rudimentary initial screening and after say a 2 year trial period have a selec…

That would likely violate equality before the law. It won't pass legal (and rightfully so IMO).

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#28

Post by ponzored »

madaxe_again wrote: post #9

They have a really odd way to attract tech talent.... I exited my startup in the uk two years ago, successfully, leaving a successful and growing technology business behind. I have several ideas which I am prepared to self-fund up to £0.5M, and want a good environment in which to start a new business. I know coders in NZ, and they’re a talented bunch, we began to hatch a plan. In short, the NZ gov’t don’t want it. Th…

Just sign up for a degree at a degree mill and you'll get a student visa and an easy route to permanent residency.

New Zealand (and Australia) don't care about quality migrants, just quantity, to keep up demand for housing (both countries have housing-bubble-based economies) and to add extra consumption to national GDP.

The migrants they really want are Indians who can put downwards pressure on wages. Go to Auckland, its basically an Asian city.

Go somewhere like Poland, Romania or Portugal and hire your own workforce. You won't even be in the ass-end of the world like NZ.

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#29

Post by rebelnz »

chriselles wrote: post #4

I’m in NZ, and involved in the startup community down here. Great people, great vibe. There’s a long history of Innovation down here at the bottom of the planet. The best example is David Downs book “#8 Rewired” which gives examples of great NZ Innovations such as: Disposable hypodermic syringe Manned flight(disputed) Jet boat Nanotube Freeze dried coffee(sorry) DNA discovery Splitting the atom(Rutherford) DNA double…

One of the most underated software produced in NZ is Serato - pretty much changed the DJing game.

Re: 'New Zealand wants you': the problem with tech at the edge of the world

#30

Post by CalRobert »

tzfld wrote: post #11

>Two guys in a garage Is this urban legend still taken seriously? I mean, it was a thing 40 years ago, but now there is hardly anyone "with nothing to lose" that can reach anywhere without a good amount of luck.

Pretty sure luck was a requisite 40 years ago too. But it does seem harder to imagine low-hanging fruit is as common now as it was then.
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