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Zed finishes Learn Python The Hard Way

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Re: Zed finishes Learn Python The Hard Way

#31

Post by njharman »

MrJagil wrote: post #16
mechanical_fish wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does not give the answer. Welcome to graduate school! (And, for that matter, real life.) As in grad school, the secret is: If you can't figure it out, ask around. Form teams that stay up until 3am waving their hands and sketching on chalkboards. If nothing else, it's a bonding experience that you'll treasure for life.

I get your message, but the problem is this is not grad school. This is a book; one way communication. I have no one to ask, as I am the only one I know who has an interest in coding. Of course I can always ask on the web, but having to break off from coding, pose a question, and then wait for it to get answered before I can continue really breaks up my learning curve.

> Of course I can always ask on the web, but having to break off from coding, pose a question, and then wait for it

I've been programming professionally for almost 20 years. What you described right there is the fundamental skill/activity I have performed. Whether waiting for a spec, or decision if this feature is going in, or most commonly like your self looking for answer to some problem I don't get.

Good programmers either know everything (ha) or know how to learn/find the answer quickly. It's a great skill to start honing now.

Re: Zed finishes Learn Python The Hard Way

#32

Post by RyanMcGreal »

steveklabnik wrote: post #21
shin_lao wrote: post #5

Unless I'm mistaken there's no chapter about functional programming in Python (lambda functions, filter(), map() and reduce()). I really think it's acceptable to introduce these function to newbies, I'll go as far as saying it's actually a good thing. I like the chapter on automated testing.

The Python community has frowned on functional programming, reduce isn't in basic Python anymore, and they almost took out lambda: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=98196

Strange that they took out reduce() but not map() and filter(), which you can easily replicate with list comprehensions.

Re: Zed finishes Learn Python The Hard Way

#33

Post by mgrouchy »

SandB0x wrote: post #24
MrJagil wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your message, but the problem is this is not grad school. This is a book; one way communication. I have no one to ask, as I am the only one I know who has an interest in coding. Of course I can always ask on the web, but having to break off from coding, pose a question, and then wait for it to get answered before I can continue really breaks up my learning curve.

Asking clear questions will help you learn. You can ask on Stack Overflow (or #python) - make sure to credit the source of your question[0] and at what point you are stuck. Often by trying to explain the precise thing that you don't understand, you will have a moment of zen. [0] People will be a lot more helpful if they know you are trying to learn, rather than posting a "send me teh codes plz" request. Also they wil…

Often by trying to explain the precise thing that you don't understand, you will have a moment of zen.

This.

I often find that I run into a problem, try to solve it on my own, then bring someone unfamiliar in to get a fresh set of eyes on it. It usually goes like this

Me: "Hey, I honestly can't figure out why this is doing this particular thing, can you take a look? ...FUCK! Nevermind, I know exactly whats going on. Thanks for your help"

Person I asked: "Huh?Uh sure? I can solve problems with my presence alone"

Re: Zed finishes Learn Python The Hard Way

#34

Post by sharms »

jerf wrote: post #30
shin_lao wrote: post #5

Unless I'm mistaken there's no chapter about functional programming in Python (lambda functions, filter(), map() and reduce()). I really think it's acceptable to introduce these function to newbies, I'll go as far as saying it's actually a good thing. I like the chapter on automated testing.

He didn't cover defining first-class functions that I could see in a quick check, didn't cover generators, and I think most disappointingly, didn't cover __metaclass__. That's some critical stuff for Python programming right there, everybody needs __metaclass__. Ahem. You have to pick what to cover. For a beginning Python book, I'm underwhelmed by the need to drag an entirely new and foreign(-to-Python) paradigm into…

I have programmed literally hundreds of thousands of lines of python without using classes or __metaclass__, as a counter example.

When dealing in industry, we can't always hire the best talent, so there is no need to make things overly complex. Simple solutions work best for a lot of scenarios, and I haven't been limited by it yet.

Not to bash Perl, but the whole reason we write in Python is because there were too many people on our team writing in Perl using too many obscure constructs that took too long to review / revise (especially years later when team members changed and code was forgotten in parts)

Re: Zed finishes Learn Python The Hard Way

#35

Post by dchest »

sharms wrote: post #34
jerf wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't cover defining first-class functions that I could see in a quick check, didn't cover generators, and I think most disappointingly, didn't cover __metaclass__. That's some critical stuff for Python programming right there, everybody needs __metaclass__. Ahem. You have to pick what to cover. For a beginning Python book, I'm underwhelmed by the need to drag an entirely new and foreign(-to-Python) paradigm into…

I have programmed literally hundreds of thousands of lines of python without using classes or __metaclass__, as a counter example. When dealing in industry, we can't always hire the best talent, so there is no need to make things overly complex. Simple solutions work best for a lot of scenarios, and I haven't been limited by it yet. Not to bash Perl, but the whole reason we write in Python is because there were too m…

Ahem.

Re: Zed finishes Learn Python The Hard Way

#36

Post by araneae »

shin_lao wrote: post #5

Unless I'm mistaken there's no chapter about functional programming in Python (lambda functions, filter(), map() and reduce()). I really think it's acceptable to introduce these function to newbies, I'll go as far as saying it's actually a good thing. I like the chapter on automated testing.

Meh. I just sent this to a friend of mine that knows nothing about coding, but is taking a class (biology) that uses python. She really has no need of functional programming, she just needs to know how to survive her problem sets. I think that's the audience.

Re: Zed finishes Learn Python The Hard Way

#37

Post by Luyt »

regularfry wrote: post #26
SteveC wrote: post #13

Mongrel 2 and now a book on Python. The man is a machine.

If I remember correctly, he's also currently unemployed. This may be relevant :-)

He's also planning to give python classes: http://codelesson.com/python (discussed in http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1724354)

Re: Zed finishes Learn Python The Hard Way

#38

Post by araneae »

volski wrote: post #22
MrJagil wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your message, but the problem is this is not grad school. This is a book; one way communication. I have no one to ask, as I am the only one I know who has an interest in coding. Of course I can always ask on the web, but having to break off from coding, pose a question, and then wait for it to get answered before I can continue really breaks up my learning curve.

>Of course I can always ask on the web, but having to break off from coding, pose a question, and then wait for it to get answered before I can continue really breaks up my learning curve. You're skipping a vital step. Searching for the answer on the web. Most of the time the question you want to ask has already been answered.

Very true! Most things can be solved that way. But sometimes your issues are not googleable. I remember back when I was just learning javascript, it would never in my wildest dreams occur to me that there were host objects and that you couldn't write over them, since I'd only used compiled languages before... it took 5 seconds for my friend to start laughing when he looked at my code because I had named a variable "top."

Re: Zed finishes Learn Python The Hard Way

#39

Post by sigzero »

sharms wrote: post #34
jerf wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't cover defining first-class functions that I could see in a quick check, didn't cover generators, and I think most disappointingly, didn't cover __metaclass__. That's some critical stuff for Python programming right there, everybody needs __metaclass__. Ahem. You have to pick what to cover. For a beginning Python book, I'm underwhelmed by the need to drag an entirely new and foreign(-to-Python) paradigm into…

I have programmed literally hundreds of thousands of lines of python without using classes or __metaclass__, as a counter example. When dealing in industry, we can't always hire the best talent, so there is no need to make things overly complex. Simple solutions work best for a lot of scenarios, and I haven't been limited by it yet. Not to bash Perl, but the whole reason we write in Python is because there were too m…

Don't blame Perl. Blame the programmers and your methodology that allowed them to do that.

Re: Zed finishes Learn Python The Hard Way

#40

Post by charlief »

sharms wrote: post #34
jerf wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't cover defining first-class functions that I could see in a quick check, didn't cover generators, and I think most disappointingly, didn't cover __metaclass__. That's some critical stuff for Python programming right there, everybody needs __metaclass__. Ahem. You have to pick what to cover. For a beginning Python book, I'm underwhelmed by the need to drag an entirely new and foreign(-to-Python) paradigm into…

I have programmed literally hundreds of thousands of lines of python without using classes or __metaclass__, as a counter example. When dealing in industry, we can't always hire the best talent, so there is no need to make things overly complex. Simple solutions work best for a lot of scenarios, and I haven't been limited by it yet. Not to bash Perl, but the whole reason we write in Python is because there were too m…

jerf was being sarcastic and transitioned to his point with "Ahem". Let us all celebrate the ambiguity of text.
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