Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#121

Post by aglavine » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 5:16 AM UTC

quadrangle wrote: post #116

toomuchtodo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that the majority of federal tax revenues are generated by top income earners. It’s more of a wealth transfer between different groups of the wealthy. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/06/a-closer-loo...

Patents take money from the poor by denying them the prosperity at low-cost that would happen if there were no patents. Patents are government-enforced monopolies. They enable all of what anyone would expect with monopolies, namely high prices for consumers.

I am as against patents as anybody else, but I wish that people talk more about the original idea behind it: if next-door wealthy guy can copy everything you invent, then there is few incentive if any to create anything new.

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#122

Post by rjtrickett » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 5:36 AM UTC

citilife wrote: post #51

hellllllllooo wrote: post #4

It's crazy how the large companies file so many patents for any idea their employees can think of. We used to have a lawyer come to our desks once a month and they would try patent any idea you could come up with even off the top of your head. Not sure how small companies can compete when larger companies can buy up all the IP in a space without having to do any work. The smaller companies I've worked for have to be…

As someone who has multiple issued patents from large companies.. It's a pretty complex issue. I personally think software patents should be outlawed, as I don't know a better solution. On the one hand, I have several patents for project(s) that took years to develop. The processes are unique, very difficult to replicate, and should be offered some protection (if we agree that motor designs should be protected). The…

Has the idea of a patent tax ever been explored?

Basically, increasing the cost of filing patents incrementally to regulate excessive patenting and encourage companies to be more selective.

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#123

Post by IncRnd » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 5:56 AM UTC

beagle3 wrote: post #102

IncRnd wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have several patents I created and assigned to my company. The main reason is to allow the company to work in those ways without restriction. For example, without a patent granting rights to do operation XYZ, then a competitor may say that the company is doing something forbidden and needs to stop. We can look at all the claims for stolen IP with the various self-driving car companies to see examples. This is a for…

Patents are strictly an offensive measure: They only allow you to sue/stop someone else from using them. They do NOT give you approval to do something. Some people mention "defensive" patents; They are only defensive in the sense that "the best defence is an offence" - that if someone attacks you, you have something to attack them back with. But that's not actually useful against entities that aren't practicing, such…

In the US a patent grant confers the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling the invention throughout the United States or importing the invention into the United States.

In that way, while there isn't legal approval, there are real world patent rights that create a bar which stops many from interfering with your business processes. In this way, there is a non-offensive and defensive ability to conduct business.

I am the inventor on a number of patents, and this is exactly how patents work out in practice for the specific type of industry and purpose that this thread is about. I am not talking about the law of patents but how patents are used in the actual real world by large companies. That was in reply to what the GP wrote, "It's crazy how the large companies file so many patents for any idea their employees can think of."

In fact, it's not "crazy" that companies do this. What is crazy is the system in which they are forced to do this. Unfortunately lawsuits take a lot of money and time, which I am sure you are familiar with.

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#124

Post by sametmax » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 6:10 AM UTC

itronitron wrote: post #88

hellllllllooo wrote: post #4

It's crazy how the large companies file so many patents for any idea their employees can think of. We used to have a lawyer come to our desks once a month and they would try patent any idea you could come up with even off the top of your head. Not sure how small companies can compete when larger companies can buy up all the IP in a space without having to do any work. The smaller companies I've worked for have to be…

The beauty of this approach is that patents expire after ~15-20 years so it is basically just guaranteeing that everything will be free and clear soon.

No they will just patent a soight variation again and again to have ground to sue. Even if they loose (but given their lawyer power they may even win), you gona bleed so much cash you won't be be able to compete anyway.

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#125

Post by sametmax » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 6:23 AM UTC

janoc wrote: post #65

amelius wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone can patent, say, the magsafe connector, then I don't see why someone couldn't patent the FFT. Whether it's a good thing that patents exist is another matter, though.

I think the idea behind patents was that you can't patent natural phenomena and things that derive from them. Algorithms are just another way of expressing mathematics and logic so that is what gives the rise to the idea that these things shouldn't be patentable. Mathematics and logic describe laws of nature (such as waves in the case of a Fourier transform) which exist without us "inventing" them. Magsafe connector…

Good luck to define "natural".

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#126

Post by wingerlang » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 6:41 AM UTC

sincerely wrote: post #105

lgregg wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really get facebook outside of being able to see vaguely what is going on with family. I call, text, and email my actual friends if we're not in person.

a lot of subcultures pretty much exist through facebook now. i deleted about a year before all this shit went down but had to reactivate recently because there’s really no other way to be aware of whats going on in the electronic music scene, especially for parties in illegal venues that cant be traditionally advertised

I was searching, on and off, for a specific motorcycle model for 3-4 years without finding one. Recently I found a small but active group dedicated to this particular model and within 4 weeks there was a post about some for sale.

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#127

Post by xtrapolate » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 6:46 AM UTC

bitL wrote: post #37

I have to give it to FB - it's impressive how does their personal information collection and inference work. I was recently called by their recruiter - despite me being off FB for a few years, with inactive LinkedIn profile and keeping my current career info offline, they were perfectly informed what I am up to. Google messaged me as well. It's pretty amazing they could figure it out, even if I didn't really hide any…

Not refuting your theory, but in all probability, you (like most others in the industry) have friends ("friends"?) that simply relay info to recruiters from these two companies. Poaching is often done that way.

Also, at least in my case, both Google and Facebook periodically reach out, years after our last formal interaction.

Had a recruiter working for one of my clients for a few years. They later left the company and joined the competition. Recruiter's past "success stories" all got contacted, not a week after.

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#128

Post by colordrops » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 6:53 AM UTC

citilife wrote: post #51

hellllllllooo wrote: post #4

It's crazy how the large companies file so many patents for any idea their employees can think of. We used to have a lawyer come to our desks once a month and they would try patent any idea you could come up with even off the top of your head. Not sure how small companies can compete when larger companies can buy up all the IP in a space without having to do any work. The smaller companies I've worked for have to be…

As someone who has multiple issued patents from large companies.. It's a pretty complex issue. I personally think software patents should be outlawed, as I don't know a better solution. On the one hand, I have several patents for project(s) that took years to develop. The processes are unique, very difficult to replicate, and should be offered some protection (if we agree that motor designs should be protected). The…

Unless your job is actually filing patents, I'm sure you'd still live a relatively comfortable life without filing them. You must not be that opposed to patents if you are willing to go against your own beliefs for some small bonuses.

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#129

Post by plokiju » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 6:55 AM UTC

aglavine wrote: post #121

quadrangle wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patents take money from the poor by denying them the prosperity at low-cost that would happen if there were no patents. Patents are government-enforced monopolies. They enable all of what anyone would expect with monopolies, namely high prices for consumers.

I am as against patents as anybody else, but I wish that people talk more about the original idea behind it: if next-door wealthy guy can copy everything you invent, then there is few incentive if any to create anything new.

That argument has always felt like it came out of economics 101. Maybe in a world where everyone is a rational economic actor motivated only by maximizing profits, people wouldn't make anything new without a patent.

In the real world, open source and open research communities have no shortage of innovation, even without being able to place artificial blocks on the competition. It turns out, creator's motivations are more complicated than making money alone.

In my opinion, innovation might move a bit slower without the money injections from VCs who can be confident they can get patents and a safe ROI, but I think we'd be better off in the long run if we allowed creators to build off past ideas without the fear of being sued.

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#130

Post by em3rgent0rdr » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 7:02 AM UTC

rjtrickett wrote: post #122

citilife wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has multiple issued patents from large companies.. It's a pretty complex issue. I personally think software patents should be outlawed, as I don't know a better solution. On the one hand, I have several patents for project(s) that took years to develop. The processes are unique, very difficult to replicate, and should be offered some protection (if we agree that motor designs should be protected). The…

Has the idea of a patent tax ever been explored? Basically, increasing the cost of filing patents incrementally to regulate excessive patenting and encourage companies to be more selective.

hmm...then wouldn't the companies just create spin-off companies which they own. Or instead just submit the patent in the name of the employee who invented it, but have a contract with the employee to license the patent to the company.