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Masters of Love: Lasting relationships come down to kindness, generosity (2014)

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Re: Masters of Love: Lasting relationships come down to kindness, generosity (2014)

#51

Post by 5thbootloader »

wslh wrote: post #45
5thbootloader wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the comment was referencing a myriad of different factors which might affect relationships now that didn't exist in 2014? According to the World Happiness Report 2017, there is a trend which suggests Americans are growing less happy each year. So maybe in the interim of 4 years the world has become drastically less optimistic about intimate relationships... Or not.

If we are leveling our critical analysis and skepticism to the extreme I would say that all these studies are never settled and the World Happiness Report does not invalidate findings of the other study. > there is a trend which suggests Americans are growing less happy each year. So maybe in the interim of 4 years the world. So are you saying that Amricans = World? Please (for example) go to Spain and look about how…

Ah, I was not intending for my response to be taken literally, sorry. I was merely trying to show how ridiculous his claim was since there was no rational argument for it.

I'll have to work on my presentation skills next time.

Re: Masters of Love: Lasting relationships come down to kindness, generosity (2014)

#52

Post by ivm »

ScottBurson wrote: post #16
throwaway713 wrote: post #11

I'll quote Richard White's answer on Quora to the question "What was the worst thing your parents ever did to you?" > Every day from as early as I can remember, they were clearly and obviously in love with each other. Even after 50 years of marriage they were still acting like two teenagers going steady. They always supported each other in everything they did or tried to do. They "had each other's backs" at all times…

No marriage is perfect. Every couple fights sometimes, if both people are being real with each other, and if they're not, that's a huge problem in itself. (I think everdev is probably right: they didn't let you see them fighting.) The goal is not to never fight; it's to always fight fair . Sounds like your parents didn't show you how to do that — which is too bad, if they themselves knew, because most people don't. I…

> Every couple fights sometimes

At least one don't. We had fights in the beginning but more than 10 years later there are none. The recipe is staying aware of the ego's childish behavior, so both of you can stop and think instead of trying to have it your way or being afraid to look silly.

Re: Masters of Love: Lasting relationships come down to kindness, generosity (2014)

#53

Post by ivm »

watwut wrote: post #41
logicchains wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No marriage is perfect. Every couple fights sometimes, if both people are being real with each other, and if they're not, that's a huge problem in itself. Buying into this argument that "every couple fight sometimes" is why so many people never eliminate fights from their relationships, because they think it's normal and so never put the effort into bettering themselves and addressing the root causes of problems so…

The root cause of fight is that partners disagree over something that is important to both (likely related to some core value). The contributing factor is oftentimes stress, people are not able to be perfect under stress and sleep deprivation. Self-control and compassion don't make disagreement or bad feelings over important things disappear. They are still present. The "never fight" relationships (not just marriage,…

> The "never fight" relationships (not just marriage, but also friendships) are either "we do things as separately as possible" or one of the two ceased to talk about his or her issues.

You missed one more option: "we can discuss a problem without involving emotions or clinging to our opinions too much".

Re: Masters of Love: Lasting relationships come down to kindness, generosity (2014)

#54

Post by watwut »

ivm wrote: post #53
watwut wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The root cause of fight is that partners disagree over something that is important to both (likely related to some core value). The contributing factor is oftentimes stress, people are not able to be perfect under stress and sleep deprivation. Self-control and compassion don't make disagreement or bad feelings over important things disappear. They are still present. The "never fight" relationships (not just marriage,…

> The "never fight" relationships (not just marriage, but also friendships) are either "we do things as separately as possible" or one of the two ceased to talk about his or her issues. You missed one more option: "we can discuss a problem without involving emotions or clinging to our opinions too much".

Not clinging on our opinions imply that said opinion is not much important to you. It is easy to make compromise over dinner meal. It is harder to move away from what you consider right in ethical sense or what is important for your self respect. Most couples eventually run into something like that. I don't mean something dramatic here, just personally important.

After all, you are marrying real independent person not a clone.

Also, it is true that when you dont involve emotions in relationship, problem solving is easier. However, that situation describes more work relationship then lifetime partner relationship. We are supposed to be emotionally invested in the whole marriage thing.

Re: Masters of Love: Lasting relationships come down to kindness, generosity (2014)

#55

Post by watwut »

logicchains wrote: post #47
watwut wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The root cause of fight is that partners disagree over something that is important to both (likely related to some core value). The contributing factor is oftentimes stress, people are not able to be perfect under stress and sleep deprivation. Self-control and compassion don't make disagreement or bad feelings over important things disappear. They are still present. The "never fight" relationships (not just marriage,…

>The root cause of fight is that partners disagree over something that is important to both (likely related to some core value). If both partners disagree about a core value (and no mutually agreeable compromise is possible), the rational thing to do is either separate or for one party to accept the disagreement and move on. Repeatedly arguing about something serves absolutely no purpose, as there's extremely little…

Einstein was pretty shitty husband, don't take relationship advice from him. (He was good at physics.)

I have seen enough angry collegues to know that people in fact don't manage to not be angry in work. Plenty of them angry without being abusive or toxic for the record, but clearly pissed and venting or yelling.

Anger is feeling, it is not rational, compassion and listening don't stop it. Self control is about what you do, not what you feel.

Repeated discussions make sense and can bring you two closer over time. Bit by bit. Can make you two learn to live with difference. That quote is not true. I am very glad I did not divorced first time serious difference arose.

Re: Masters of Love: Lasting relationships come down to kindness, generosity (2014)

#56

Post by kstenerud »

cup-of-tea wrote: post #33
kstenerud wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the study cited didn't take into account confounding factors (cohabitation in earlier decades was associated more strongly with lower socioeconomic status, for example). The study has since been replicated with more recent data, and shows a weakening correlation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000053/

Well, they are still both talking about marriage dissolution. While dissolution surely implies an unhappy marriage, the reverse implication is most certainly not true. Many marriages stay official for reasons other than "love and happiness". Most affairs probably don't even come to light, let alone actually lead to marriage dissolution.

Which begs the question: "Why bring up this study at all?"

Re: Masters of Love: Lasting relationships come down to kindness, generosity (2014)

#57

Post by TangoTrotFox »

Why did they pick 6 years as the measurement for a successful relationship? Given a perfectly justified skepticism of social science studies, that number seems very much like sample retrofitting. Beyond that, even their hypothesis is absurd as it implies that the way a person interacts is a causal factor for a relationship, yet the way people interact with their partner is quite obviously caused by how they get along! It's like saying people who enjoy going to the beach are often tanned, and implying that if you're not tanned that is a causal relationship with you not going to the beach. It's really bizarre logic.

Re: Masters of Love: Lasting relationships come down to kindness, generosity (2014)

#58

Post by JustSomeNobody »

ta1234567890 wrote: post #49

My wife and I have a company together and work from home, so we pretty much see each other all day every day. When we first started working together we got in a lot of fights and put our relationship at risk. We realized that we had to figure it out or our relationship would break. Around the same time this happened, we were incredibly lucky to have attended a free workshop called Founder's Communication (done free b…

This is very good advice and it also goes for children as well. If you want to prevent most of the fussiness of kids, make sure they stay hydrated and give them a healthy snack every couple of hours. If they are of napping age, be consistent with naps. It's not a cure-all for tantrums, but it certainly minimizes them.

Re: Masters of Love: Lasting relationships come down to kindness, generosity (2014)

#59

Post by maciejgryka »

EGreg wrote: post #37
maciejgryka wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out the book “The Course of Love” by Allain de Botton. I don’t think the problem is that the parents were happy! It’s that they were apparently unable to teach the being-happy-in-a-relationship skill to their kids. And it is a skill: more natural for some than others, but possible for everyone to learn and improve on with time and effort.

I don’t believe it is only a skill. If it were, a master could pick a random person on the street and have an amazing marriage with them. In my opinion, just like a job, there is only so much willpower and motivation you have. It’s a finite resource. A person that you are 1) Sexually attracted to 2) Emotionally connected with 3) Makes you happy by just being themselves Will make you happy and motivated to work things…

Right, I wouldn’t argue that it’s “only” anything! Like any human issue, there are many complex factors, including the fact that some matches are better than others. But I think our culture over-emphasizes finding the perfect match and totally ignores the fact that given any two people, their chances of being happy together can dramatically increase if they spend time and effort learning.

The idea that you need to find the perfect match, be totally yourself all the time and spend no effort making compromises is toxic. You’ll never have those expectations met.

Re: Masters of Love: Lasting relationships come down to kindness, generosity (2014)

#60

Post by dominotw »

ta1234567890 wrote: post #49

My wife and I have a company together and work from home, so we pretty much see each other all day every day. When we first started working together we got in a lot of fights and put our relationship at risk. We realized that we had to figure it out or our relationship would break. Around the same time this happened, we were incredibly lucky to have attended a free workshop called Founder's Communication (done free b…

> plan to avoid hunger

Isn't this the most natural feeling in all animals. It is ok to be hungry, most people all over the world don't think of hunger as a feeling to be avoided at all costs.

Being hungry is ok.

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