> Any network-effect driven product is a cult "The term cult usually refers to a social group defined by its religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, or its common interest in a particular personality, object or goal" [1]. Membership connotes devotion. That is different from network effects. For example, telephones benefit from network effects. Buying a telephone does not join one onto a cult. (Buying Bitcoin,…
Bitcoin has less than 0.1% adoption rate, I can imagine that people who bought telephones at 0.1% adoption rate had a common interest.
> I don't give a damn about the fees - it's 100% profit either way If I worked in your criminal enterprise, I'd could tell your deputies "look at this chump, throwing money away. I'll hire trucks to haul cash and boost our profits by 20%. Help me 'replace' the leader and I'll split those gains with you."
That's not how dirty money works if you want to get away with it. You need to launder it -- put it into something legitimate and, most importantly, get something back out of it that looks legitimate enough to pass casual scrutiny -- for this service anything and anyone, legit or not, is going to take a cut (or "fee"). It's the cost of doing criminal business. And if you're in a criminal enterprise and you even talk t…
Needing to pay fees is different from not "giv[ing] a damn about the fees." I understand I have to pay a broker's fee when I buy and sell stock. That doesn't mean I'm indifferent to its level.
Using Bitcoin to surreptitiously move large quantities of funds is almost always riskier and more expensive than traditional money-laundering techniques.
That's not how dirty money works if you want to get away with it. You need to launder it -- put it into something legitimate and, most importantly, get something back out of it that looks legitimate enough to pass casual scrutiny -- for this service anything and anyone, legit or not, is going to take a cut (or "fee"). It's the cost of doing criminal business. And if you're in a criminal enterprise and you even talk t…
Needing to pay fees is different from not "giv[ing] a damn about the fees." I understand I have to pay a broker's fee when I buy and sell stock. That doesn't mean I'm indifferent to its level. Using Bitcoin to surreptitiously move large quantities of funds is almost always riskier and more expensive than traditional money-laundering techniques.
And how may I ask did you come to this conclusion? Have you ever actually laundered dirty money?
I don't disagree but isn't this true for the popularization of any technology. First it's just the nerds then come the less informed masses who don't fully understand the details along with the people trying to make money out of that fact.
I think crypto is different in the way it actually doesn’t do anything. Bitcoin has been around for 9 years and you have never been able to use bitcoin as a currency fewer places than you can now.
Any data to back that up ? I know anecdotal, but I can buy beers, taxi & coffee with crypto which I could not 9 years ago and I see quite a lot of ATMs appearing; NL/UK/JP/HK. I think the main point is that I can get a coffee with crypto, which is an important milestone.
Needing to pay fees is different from not "giv[ing] a damn about the fees." I understand I have to pay a broker's fee when I buy and sell stock. That doesn't mean I'm indifferent to its level. Using Bitcoin to surreptitiously move large quantities of funds is almost always riskier and more expensive than traditional money-laundering techniques.
And how may I ask did you come to this conclusion? Have you ever actually laundered dirty money?
> Have you ever actually laundered dirty money?
No. My knowledge comes from anti-money laundering training.
Depending on how fast one needs to move, money laundering fees go from 5% to 30%. Bitcoin is cheaper than that per se. But include the costs of anonymising and cleanly cash out, and you're just adding cost and risk over a wire transfer between fronts.
I don't disagree but isn't this true for the popularization of any technology. First it's just the nerds then come the less informed masses who don't fully understand the details along with the people trying to make money out of that fact.
I think crypto is different in the way it actually doesn’t do anything. Bitcoin has been around for 9 years and you have never been able to use bitcoin as a currency fewer places than you can now.
Government bonds have been around for hundreds of years but I can't buy coffee with them. Thus they don't do anything.
And how may I ask did you come to this conclusion? Have you ever actually laundered dirty money?
> Have you ever actually laundered dirty money? No. My knowledge comes from anti-money laundering training. Depending on how fast one needs to move, money laundering fees go from 5% to 30%. Bitcoin is cheaper than that per se . But include the costs of anonymising and cleanly cash out, and you're just adding cost and risk over a wire transfer between fronts.
No man, there's so much more exposure that way. And remember, this is a criminal enterprise. Those people who run your fronts could just as easily rob/kill you and take it for themselves, and given the chance they will. With bitcoins you can 1) do it yourself, no middlemen other than the bitcoin processor who doesn't give a flying right-hand fuck where the money comes from, and 2) do it far, far, far quicker than traditional methods. A thief isn't going to give a damn about fees, I'm tellin ya, in the end it's all profit for them. Get in, get it, and get out. If I hit a lick for $100k, flip it in a couple days while interacting with not another soul but lose 30k to fees, I'm still up 70k that's a good lick. and if I paid the 30k to not have to deal with ANYONE face-to-face (least of all other criminals) that's worth it in spades because I'm not spending MY 30k, I'm spending YOUR 30k.
Bitcoin is a tool for tax evasion and money exchange on criminal assets. It turns out that also some geeks like to use it to bypass banks incompetence on international funds transfers but tax evasion is the use that drives BTC's value. The cult is just a small visible part of it but is a pretty minor aspect of it. BTC would exist without the cultists as long as Russian or Saudi assets need to be transfered without to…
That’s media sensationalism. BTC is not remotely anonymous and is useless as a tax evasion mechanism. Your money still has to go through someone to turn into BTC, and that’s the same as any other money laundering operation. Once their books are audited, your “safe haven” is worth nothing.
Vice has a good video on drug dealers lining up to use a Bitcoin ATM every day somewhere in an American ghetto. Bitcoin is 100% about drug dealing, gambling, and tax avoidance.
You would have to be a total moron to go through all the hoops to use it otherwise. Its kinda like running desktop linux in that way.