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A world of free movement would be $78T richer

economist.com

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Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#301

Post by lord_ring_11 »

fwn wrote: post #73
repolfx wrote: post #45

This article seems symptomatic of a general decline in the quality of The Economist. I used to be a subscriber but there was a noticeable sharp drop some time ago, I think when Micklethwaite stepped down as editor, and things seem to have got worse since. Shoddy thinking, bizarre arguments and extremist conclusions seem more common than they used to be. Firstly, the core thesis of the argument is that merely by movin…

> The Economist acts like good governance is a feature of geography Where did they say that? It's a common and well researched problem that institutions are not easily transplanted. I am also not really sure what "government is people" is supposed to mean. Creating and maintaining institutions that produce wealth and stability is very difficult and dependent on many conditions like path dependencies and global embedd…

And what makes u think that people who come acustomed to those values and cultures will auddenly change when broight to rich countries?

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#302

Post by qaq »

ThomPete wrote: post #297
qaq wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got be kidding the only realistic option for US is H1B majority of EU countries have simple visa's for Software Eng. with no quotas. My former employees from Ukraine are in Germany, Austria, Norway, Ireland, Estonia, Poland, Czech Republic (and outside of EU Australia, Canada) the process was 2-3 month on avg. for EU countries and they become residents pretty quickly with no quotas.

theres no quota on an O visa and you have L visas and a bunch of others on top of H1B plus the lottery plus 11 million illegal immigrants living and often working here even paying taxes. I can assure you IAm not kidding and that you should learn a little about just how open the US is compared to the EU.

How having 11 million illegal immigrants is being open :)? In Ireland it would take 2 month to get work visa that becomes PR after 2 years. L1 is only for transfers anyone that can qualify for US O visa are welcome anywhere in the world.

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#303

Post by dvtv75 »

ryen wrote: post #121
burfog wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proper child care means a high level of interaction with well-educated people who speak crisply perfect English. For the child, this is a time when they are developing language and cultural habits that will have a lifelong impact, ultimately impacting the quality of their employment and spouse. Immigrants will not provide that. It's hard enough finding non-immigrants who can provide it.

>with well-educated people who speak crisply perfect English Source? Personally, i'd rather my kid have an immigrant baby sitter speaking and teaching my child in their native language. Plenty of studies around long term intelligence of children learning second languages early on....

> Plenty of studies around long term intelligence of children learning second languages early on....

This in itself may be a myth:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/debate-rages-over...

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#304

Post by qaq »

ThomPete wrote: post #295
verelo wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried to do either? I’d love to hear what you’re basing this claim on.

ive got into the us on an O1 and now have a EB1 green card. i also founded a fairly big agency in Denmark hiring people from around the world so yeah I would say i have experience :)

OK lets compare the process for Ireland, Poland, Germany to US. Especially time to PR.

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#306

Post by lord_ring_11 »

_8j50 wrote: post #243

Hate to say it but if you suddenly open borders you will have a huge immigration crisis. Half the planet would literally move to western europe and north america. Maybe open border can work for trade and business related immigration with sponsors on either side.

I doubt it even works for trade. Full free trade has caused money flow to 3rd world countries at the cost of natives. China has policy of trading off ip for privilege of cheap manufacturing. So its growing in tech at the cost of west. What west gets in return in temporary cheap goods and must of 2$ crap toys which break.

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#307

Post by gasull »

jameslk wrote: post #206
remarkEon wrote: post #188

>If the worry is that immigrants will outvote the locals and impose an uncongenial government on them, one solution would be not to let immigrants vote—for five years, ten years or even a lifetime. This is actually an interesting idea worth thinking about more. If the concern for those on the right is that more immigrants to the US would cause a permanent electoral Blue Wall by flipping Texas in a couple election cyc…

No taxation without representation is a huge part of the culture of the US. I'm guessing suggesting open immigration without voting rights will have a large amount of detractors for this reason. Unless the immigrants aren't taxed, which is kind of the current situation anyway for illegal immigrants.

Many illegal immigrants do pay taxes. They can't get almost any job without an ITIN and paying taxes. Their employer needs an SSN or ITIN for the paperwork:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Taxpayer_Identifica...

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#308

Post by lord_ring_11 »

mythrwy wrote: post #286

This article (and the comments) seem to focus on migration from poorer to more developed areas. But what if people could migrate from the developed world to resource rich regions (like Africa and South America) and have the chance to unlock the potential of those regions? All that potential wealth which is currently held back by corrupt governments and non-progressive cultural habits could be unlocked. Wait, that hap…

Well i hear sometimes that india was better off under imperial rule than now. There was better rule of law. I guess india should have waited another 50-100 years for independence.

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#310

Post by sethrin »

prostoalex wrote: post #196
JetSpiegel wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we'd be creating tiers of citizens Other than violating many Constitutions you mean? It's bad enough to have invisible castes as is, now enshrining it into law would be a regression.

The law already differentiates between “citizens” and “permanent residents”, so even if it is a regression, it had been codified a while ago.

The United States for the first century or so had open immigration, but citizenship was restricted to "free white person(s)" of good character. The distinction between citizen and resident is therefore quite old, but originally open immigration was simply taken for granted. Immigration police didn't exist, nor police generally. So on the one hand, there wasn't even a hope of enforcing an immigration law, there also wasn't much in the way of government services. We've always had a distinction, but it was originally pretty arbitrary, racially biased, and mostly irrelevant, and the context has entirely changed. I'm not sure what conclusions may be drawn from that.
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