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A world of free movement would be $78T richer

economist.com

241–250 of 402 posts

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A world where we printed $78 trillion dollars and gave it out to whomever would also be $78 trillion dollars richer.

That isn't how it works. Inflation is a thing.

Yeah, but the writer of the article doesn't get that either.

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#242

>If the worry is that immigrants will outvote the locals and impose an uncongenial government on them, one solution would be not to let immigrants vote—for five years, ten years or even a lifetime. This is actually an interesting idea worth thinking about more. If the concern for those on the right is that more immigrants to the US would cause a permanent electoral Blue Wall by flipping Texas in a couple election cyc…

I love this idea. I think it should be applied to all jurisdictions in the US. If I move to another town or state my vote should count as 1/X increasing by 1/X per year until it's 1/1. I shouldn't have the opportunity to vote at a full 1/1 until I've assimilated to that locale. If I'm moving somewhere I presumably like the status quo there so much that I shouldn't have much need to change things.

Fractional voting seems like an unnecessarily complicated solution. Leaving it binary looks to me like a better option.

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#243
Hate to say it but if you suddenly open borders you will have a huge immigration crisis. Half the planet would literally move to western europe and north america.

Maybe open border can work for trade and business related immigration with sponsors on either side.

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was true, then US being the biggest immigrant-friendly country in the world, would do so in a heartbeat. But neither the government nor corporations are advocating this. America currently has the biggest economy in the world, an average of $58,000 income, a low 3.9% unemployment rate while enjoying GDP growth rate of close to 5% in Q2, as well as close to 220,000 new jobs every month, and growth in wage incre…

How does the rosiness of this assessment jive with the UN’s report that 40 million Americans live in poverty? Perhaps they are an ancillary component of such a Republic?

Is that relative or absolute poverty you are talking about?

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#245
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I guess it depends on each person's experience. but according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d... , US has the most immigrants at 46 million, next closest is Germany at 12 million and Russia at 11 million.

1) legal? 2) Historical laws vs current laws 3) Adjust for population size Even for say Software Eng. moving to US is a very f@#$up process, but pretty much any other country is trivial often with immediately being permanent resident or some visa that converts to PR in 1-2 years.

Its easier to get into the us than the eu so thats simply wrong. The us have way more ways too.

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#246

As this sort of thinking becomes more and more popular, I wonder how close to some kind of singularity we truly are. If the people of the world are really so eager to transform the planet into a single global monoculture, then some sort of technology-driven unification of all human consciousness can't be too far off. Me, I personally like a world of true diversity, where people of different physical regions are allow…

> then some sort of technology-driven unification of all human consciousness can't be too far off

If that happens, then the unified consciousness would be incredibly lonely.

This in contrast to when cells assembled into humans, and at least the humans had other humans to talk to.

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever considered that what you consider "western values" are in fact values that emerge in a society that lives in conditions where there is political stability and economic opportunity? That people's "culture" is affected by the environment around them as a general pattern?

I've considered this and deemed it to be false. A great counter example is Imperial China around 1300-1400AD. They were fantastically wealthy and politically stable yet "western values" did not develop.

“Western values” didn’t develop in the West until the second half of the 20th century, so I’m not sure that’s a good argument.

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#248
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I guess it depends on each person's experience. but according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d... , US has the most immigrants at 46 million, next closest is Germany at 12 million and Russia at 11 million.

1) legal? 2) Historical laws vs current laws 3) Adjust for population size Even for say Software Eng. moving to US is a very f@#$up process, but pretty much any other country is trivial often with immediately being permanent resident or some visa that converts to PR in 1-2 years.

>"but pretty much any other country is trivial often with immediately being permanent resident or some visa that converts to PR in 1-2 years."

Not at all. I know a couple that tried to move to Canada after Trump got elected but were shocked to find out they'd have to deposit 250k USD with the Canadian government for 5 years in order to be considered for permanantly residency.

Not only that, the demand for people to move into the US is tremendous so the competition is obviously very steep compared to less desireable places.

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#249
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I guess it depends on each person's experience. but according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d... , US has the most immigrants at 46 million, next closest is Germany at 12 million and Russia at 11 million.

1) legal? 2) Historical laws vs current laws 3) Adjust for population size Even for say Software Eng. moving to US is a very f@#$up process, but pretty much any other country is trivial often with immediately being permanent resident or some visa that converts to PR in 1-2 years.

The link shows percentage numbers as well- relative to total world foreigner population as well as relative to each country’s population.

Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealth to who? An immigrant will capture a much smaller share of the value they generate, otherwise why use them, than a native born citizen. This means that while theoretically 'wealth' is increasing it is increasing in such a way that those who are in the position to pay wages keep more of them and those in the position to receive them get much less. In short then what's the point of an average in a power law distr…

Extending that analogy to corporate entities, you imply that anyone with competing offers from Google and local Arco AM/PM Gas Station is better off choosing the latter one, even if Google’s offer is more competitive? Because, after all, Google is likely to extract more wealth out of that careet stint than Arco, and implicitly screw the employee over?

That is not what I wrote. Please re-read it.
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