A world of free movement would be $78T richer
211–220 of 402 posts
Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
Supposing this is true, does it matter, if the overall size of the pie increases? Isn't everyone better off? Would you rather the poor stay poor so that the rich don't get richer?
I think all you have to do is look at modern American income disparity in the United States over the last 50 or so years and you have your answer. Sure, the poorest did become moderately better off financially in terms of wages. Yet did there quality of life increase? I would argue that the size of the pie is irrelevant past the point of what is required for basic survival. What truely matters is the relative size of…
If you were to strip everybody in the Forbes 1000 list of their US citizenship (someone like Singapore or Monaco would surely step up to provide them with a valid passport), relieve them of IRS personal income filing duty, but allow their money to stay in the US economy, the economy would look the same and act the same. But the income disparity numbers would look much brighter.
Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
^^^^^^ I would also like to ask to whom would the majority of that increase in wealth go? I would argue it wouldn't be to the people doing the moving. It would be to the people driving them to move.
Supposing this is true, does it matter, if the overall size of the pie increases? Isn't everyone better off? Would you rather the poor stay poor so that the rich don't get richer?
Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer
#214Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer
#215The US has long had immigration criteria that ruled out such people.
Okay, now take a US citizen that on qualifications is a good match for such an immigrant and see what their job and career prospects are. As we know very, very well, they are unemployable or nearly so. Well, so will be the immigrant. The ability of the immigrant to get a job, have a career, and support themselves and their family is from poor to zero.
So, why do such immigrants want to come to the US? And how can they hope to make it?
First, the usual way has been the immigrants were young men who left their families, friends, villages behind and did common labor, e.g., picking fruit. They lived several to a room sleeping on a mat on the floor. They were here only the warmer parts of the year, not through the winters. They got paid in US cash with no deductions for taxes or US Social Security. Then at least for the winter, they went home and took their US cash with them. Due to currency value differences, their US cash would go really far back in their home village. Of course, that whole situation is wildly illegal, on taxes and more. A US citizen here for 12 months a year can't do that and support a family or even themselves.
Second, if the immigrant brings their family, with children, then the family and especially the children are one heck of a huge expense for the US education and welfare systems, paid for by US workers paying taxes.
More broadly the OP does poor accounting: Sure, there are a lot of people in the world who are, in US terms, not very productive. Some of these people are current US citizens, and the US is struggling to get those people trained, into jobs, and productive. The US has many dozens of job training programs. Those candidate immigrants are on average less well qualified than the millions of current US citizens struggling to be productive in the US economy. Where do the OP authors get the funny stuff they've been smoking to conclude that immigrants much less well qualified than millions of US citizens who are already struggling to get good jobs in the US will do better than those already struggling US citizens?
Or, if those immigrants are such a valuable, neglected resource, then, sure, take some US tools, supplies, know-how, etc. to some foreign countries and give the people there jobs. Chrysler tried that in Mexico and has decided that it was a mistake and are returning to Detroit.
Uh, apparently to make people as productive as in the US takes more than just some people and training for a job; also required are huge investments in infrastructure from water and sewer, roads and bridges, suppliers and supplies, communications, regulations, laws, law enforcement, public health, medical care, citizenship, ..., the whole thing. The OP is being simplistic, straining over gnats and forgetting elephants.
IMHO, too many powerful people in US business see the immigrants as a new version of slave labor. In 1861, the US had a lot of slave labor and people who liked that situation; we fought a bloody war over that issue, killed IIRC 600,000+ US soldiers and maybe a comparable number of other US citizens. Net, slavery was a big mistake. Bringing back slavery will be a bigger mistake. The forces in favor of slavery have been strong for thousands of years and did not end in 1865 or so.
If the authors of the OP want to take some funds, rush to some country with lots of really poor people that are unproductive, set up some businesses, give those people jobs, training, etc., so be it. People have been trying that off and on around the world for a long time. We've long had international organizations for such development. Successes have not been anything like the claims of tens of trillions of dollars claimed in the OP.
So, the OP looks like really bad, simple economic and business arithmetic, so bad the OP does not look like economics. So, what really is the OP? Hmm .... For a candidate answer, consider the advice "Always look for the hidden agenda.".
Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer
#216Open borders will, at first, cause downward pressure on wages, as the labor pool of workers able and willing to perform work for a lower price grows. The magnitude would be more pronounced than with what we've been currently able to observe with controlled borders, because the article proposes a scenario where welfare and public assistance would readily apply to newcomers too. In fact, there would be a growth in the…
If this was true, then US being the biggest immigrant-friendly country in the world, would do so in a heartbeat. But neither the government nor corporations are advocating this. America currently has the biggest economy in the world, an average of $58,000 income, a low 3.9% unemployment rate while enjoying GDP growth rate of close to 5% in Q2, as well as close to 220,000 new jobs every month, and growth in wage incre…
Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer
#217Open borders will, at first, cause downward pressure on wages, as the labor pool of workers able and willing to perform work for a lower price grows. The magnitude would be more pronounced than with what we've been currently able to observe with controlled borders, because the article proposes a scenario where welfare and public assistance would readily apply to newcomers too. In fact, there would be a growth in the…
If this was true, then US being the biggest immigrant-friendly country in the world, would do so in a heartbeat. But neither the government nor corporations are advocating this. America currently has the biggest economy in the world, an average of $58,000 income, a low 3.9% unemployment rate while enjoying GDP growth rate of close to 5% in Q2, as well as close to 220,000 new jobs every month, and growth in wage incre…
edit: strong lang.
Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer
#218It's efficient because it reduces the bargining power of labour to nothing, and those that gain are the owners of capital. With no bargining power, benefits will disappear and everyone will be non permanent except those in very secure positions or in very specialist jobs.
People will no longer have a home - a place to belong, they'll either break up families with parents working on other countries, or children will endure an existence of jumping from place to place eroding the chance for normal development.
Society will be broken and the ability to self organise to build political movements will evaporate.
This will not be a nice world to live in for 99.9pc of the population.
Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer
#219Re: A world of free movement would be $78T richer
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wealth to who? An immigrant will capture a much smaller share of the value they generate, otherwise why use them, than a native born citizen. This means that while theoretically 'wealth' is increasing it is increasing in such a way that those who are in the position to pay wages keep more of them and those in the position to receive them get much less. In short then what's the point of an average in a power law distr…
Extending that analogy to corporate entities, you imply that anyone with competing offers from Google and local Arco AM/PM Gas Station is better off choosing the latter one, even if Google’s offer is more competitive? Because, after all, Google is likely to extract more wealth out of that careet stint than Arco, and implicitly screw the employee over?