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Hundreds of skulls reveal massive scale of human sacrifice in Aztec capital
111–120 of 322 posts
Re: Hundreds of skulls reveal massive scale of human sacrifice in Aztec capital
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but more importantly start seeing animals as other beings with souls Let's stipulate that non-human animals have a "soul," whatever you believe a soul to be. How to you judge the soul of, say, a raccoon; a creature than has been called the psychopath of the animal world? A raccoon is never happier than when it's slaughtering a nest full of cute, helpless babies. Red-tailed hawks are such a menace to other species t…
Raccoons don't have the capacity for moral judgement but humans do. It doesn't make sense to think of a raccoon's actions as a part of a moral framework but it does for humans. In fact, we already do. What vegans/vegetarians are doing is extending that logic to be more consistent in our diet.
The premise under discussion is that they have a soul, so it's a big leap to say that they have a soul but no capacity for moral judgment.
I also reject the premise that an act may be evil if propagated by a human but ok if done by a being without moral judgment.
Re: Hundreds of skulls reveal massive scale of human sacrifice in Aztec capital
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
> were some of the most disturbing and violent ever and I find this almost giddy excitement over human sacrifice to be very off-putting. Heck, until past century the crowds gathered to watch hangings, guillotines and other executions all over Europe. And just past century the Germans burned to death 6 million Jews, gypsies, leftists, and homosexuals. Then there are the lynchings as a means of justice (in the West) an…
Executions were of condemned criminals. The Western world, and many others, mobilized to stop Nazi Germany. Lynching was an illegal act. I'm not sure those really compare to industrial scale ritual sacrifice as a cornerstone of the society.
>The Western world, and many others, mobilized to stop Nazi Germany.
That was more of an effort to avoid Germany getting more powerful (and affecting them) than a humanitarian mission. Besides, half of the "western world" took side with the Nazis, including a full blown pro-Nazi government in occupied France (with tons of sympathizers pre- and during the occupation), Italy (of course), Austria, Bulgaria, Estonia, Norway, Ukraine, and so on.
>Lynching was an illegal act.
And yet few ever got into prison for it when it was practiced.
Re: Hundreds of skulls reveal massive scale of human sacrifice in Aztec capital
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's fundamentally a philosophical question. I think it's a surprisingly insightful observation.
One is to appease "the gods". The other is to protect society (and punish the evil) {as they saw it}. Quite different.
How are they different? (I don't mean this sarcastically)
In one world, we believe that a crime committed causes harm against a social construction. In the other...
To me, it seems like the crucial difference is whether the person responsible for the act is the one punished. It is not clear that is the objective of the modern (American) justice system. It is even less certain that was an issue with pre-Enlightenment justice systems.
Human nature seems to be more "someone has to pay!!" more than "the person responsible has to pay!"
Re: Hundreds of skulls reveal massive scale of human sacrifice in Aztec capital
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's fundamentally a philosophical question. I think it's a surprisingly insightful observation.
I disagree. What god is capital punishment meant to appease? It's supposedly there for people who are too dangerous to keep alive right? Human sacrifice seems to me like it was meant to bring better harvests or otherwise give the illusion of controlling a chaotic/random natural process.
I don't think so. I think it's current justification is typically framed in the form of 'punishment', and its historical justification was purely religious. And, coincidentally, was at least partially about giving the punished person a fair shot at redemption by punishing them while they were still on earth - which is literal god-appeasement.
Regardless, I think equating capital punishment with ritual sacrifice is a fair judgement. No matter how rational our rituals and systems for killing people seem, there's no reason to suggest that the Aztecs did not feel similarly about their rituals and systems. Law is not supposed to be a science, so it's also not free from cultural relativism, even if you're not a cultural relativist generally.
Re: Hundreds of skulls reveal massive scale of human sacrifice in Aztec capital
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
One is to appease "the gods". The other is to protect society (and punish the evil) {as they saw it}. Quite different.
When the state structure is considered to be the status quo endorsed by the gods is capital punishment not a ritual sacrifice?
Perhaps divine retribution is a better explanation than ritual sacrifice in theocratic regimes, in the case that a god or a group of gods require the death of the mortal body so the soul can face metaphysical justice for Earthly sin.
However, regardless of the metaphysical beliefs of a state, any entity of sufficient size & organization will often be recognized by an individual as possibly having godlike power over the individual's body. Whether or not that truth actually ritualizes state-sanctioned violence, or the diffused psychological impact of that violence can be called a sacrifice, is a matter of opinion; however, being that it is state-sanctioned it is obviously distinct from murder, and because these punishments often have no deterrent effect on the populace, their true nature is in camera obscura.
Re: Hundreds of skulls reveal massive scale of human sacrifice in Aztec capital
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
One is to appease "the gods". The other is to protect society (and punish the evil) {as they saw it}. Quite different.
When the state structure is considered to be the status quo endorsed by the gods is capital punishment not a ritual sacrifice?
Not sure why this was downvoted, but I support your question.
As modernists, we believe that it's important to punish the person who is responsible for a crime. It is not clear that is
1/ "Justice",
2/ shared by our ancestors,
3/ any more clear or moral than other belief systems.
It boils down to the purpose of the modern justice system. I've heard all the following reasons, each with deficiencies:
1) because doing wrong must be met with punishment (tautology)
2) because it keeps dangerous people off the street (not structurally optimized for)
3) because it makes our society safer (abstract/generic)
4) because it makes it clear that each individual is responsible for their actions (most believable to me)
I guess my question is this: why do we put people in jail (or kill them)? Personally, I don't think our justice system exists to make "good society" safer[0]; I think it's to control people so they behave in the same way those in charge want people to behave. (I.e., the initial motivation is amoral.)
[0] if so, victimless crimes wouldn't be so heavily regulated
Re: Hundreds of skulls reveal massive scale of human sacrifice in Aztec capital
#118This article doesn't specifically mention cannibalism, but in my twenties I read a book that posited that "the lamb" of Christianity being a symbol of peace, as well as the Hindu reverence for the cow, were based on their ability to provide food security because they are grazers who are able to turn grass into protein. Grass is not a human food source. So this means they don't compete for the same food sources we do.…
You can get protein from other sources than large mammals feeding on grass. In fact, they’re one of the less efficient ways to produce proteins if that’s what you are worried about.
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Re: Hundreds of skulls reveal massive scale of human sacrifice in Aztec capital
#119When I see a bunch of skulls in one place like this, or in the catacombs, it makes me think of the accumulated experience of people. Not because of the brains in the skulls or whatever, but just that each skull represents a single human life. Most of the time these are adult skulls, guessing 30+ years each. That's a lot of living. I just asked google to solve a couple of problems for me. What is the current populatio…
Wow! This is a a really cool observation!
Re: Hundreds of skulls reveal massive scale of human sacrifice in Aztec capital
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Disagree completely. Capital punishment has always been little more than ritual sacrifice. War itself may be little more than ritual sacrifice.
Contextually conflating capital punishment with ritual is I think wrong.
Perhaps in a modern context. I know that the ancient Chinese were big into sacrificing prisoners and captives of war. And the end result is eerily similar even when couched in terms of law and order. Sacrifice has both been used to appease or ask favor of the gods, and to assert ones rightness and an other’s wrongness. Capital punishment fits the second criterion to a tee.