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The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

cityobservatory.org

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Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#101

Post by pdpi »

ars wrote: post #25

I suspect that the people wanting "an urban zone", want one without all the drawbacks. Once you include the drawbacks that can not be removed, you will find they are living exactly where they want to live. The kind of analysis in this report is one of those "lying with statistics" things, because I don't think it's measuring what the authors think it's measuring.

How do you account for the effect where people do live closer to their stated preference in Boston than Atlanta, then? Surely if those effects were so deleterious, that wouldn’t be a thing

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#102

Post by pdpi »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #73
imaoreo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

care to explain what those drawbacks are?

Let's see: Drunks/junkies/mentally ill people shitting, pissing, and vomiting everywhere, while verbally (and sometimes physically) abusing the passers-by. Noise. Breathing the stench of exhaust fumes, week-old garbage, and someone else's idea of cooking. Having no place for your children to sit on the grass without worrying about them finding someone's discarded needle or excrement. Having no space for gardens, hobb…

Those aren’t problems with urban areas in general. They’re problems with poorly-managed urban areas

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#103

Post by romwell »

brailsafe wrote: post #60
smcameron wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, nobody wants to walk in Houston. AC is required to survive there.

Perhaps if buildings were a bit taller with people and businesses closer, you'd require less walking and it would be spent more in the shade.

There's also the radical European idea of planting (gasp) trees in the streets to provide shade when the sun is out.

(And, while we're dreaming, putting benches in the streets so that tired walkers could have some rest, and maybe even putting little plazas at street intersections to provide spaces for people to socialize and thus making the whole process of walking around the city more enjoyable).

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#104

Post by rhapsodic »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #75
rhapsodic wrote: post #47

For entertainment, I like cities better than suburbs. Hands down. At home, I like parking in a driveway better than parking on the street. At home, I like parking in a garage better than parking in a driveway or alley. At home, I like parking in an attached garage better than parking in a detached one. I like living in my own house better than an apartment. I like living in a free-standing house better than a duplex…

I'm fine with people making different lifestyle choices than me. I just want them to: 1. Not outlaw my preferred lifestyle choices. The vast majority of the country makes it illegal to build walkable urban neighborhoods. 2. Don't make me pay for your lifestyle choices. Car use is heavily subsidized in the US via road and parking infrastructure, laws that require private citizens to build parking at their own expense…

This is how democracies work. You don't always get what you want. Sorry to break it to you.

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#105

Post by matchbok »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #73
imaoreo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

care to explain what those drawbacks are?

Let's see: Drunks/junkies/mentally ill people shitting, pissing, and vomiting everywhere, while verbally (and sometimes physically) abusing the passers-by. Noise. Breathing the stench of exhaust fumes, week-old garbage, and someone else's idea of cooking. Having no place for your children to sit on the grass without worrying about them finding someone's discarded needle or excrement. Having no space for gardens, hobb…

I live in DC and experience exactly 0 of any of that. Your imagination of a "city" seems to be based entirely on the Mission district of SF. I would suggest travel.

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#106

Post by matchbok »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #74
twblalock wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of children grow up in cities (in apartments, no less!) and they turn out just fine.

And millions of them don't. Educational outcomes, crime (both as victim and perpetrator), and mental health are all worse for those who grew up in cities, and not just slightly worse. Much worse.

Where is the opioid crisis right now?

Thought so.

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#108

Post by troydavis »

djrogers wrote: post #12

Yet another article claiming that I, every member of my family, and all of my friends don’t actually want to live in our horrible susburbs. It’s not possible that we actually love it here, that we like the clean air, wide open spaces, huge yards, non-crowded downtown, small family friendly parades, and our rodeo. Nope, we’re all just lying to ourselves and really want to love in a cramped arcology.

Could you quote or otherwise cite where the article claims that?

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#109

Post by watwut »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #74
twblalock wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of children grow up in cities (in apartments, no less!) and they turn out just fine.

And millions of them don't. Educational outcomes, crime (both as victim and perpetrator), and mental health are all worse for those who grew up in cities, and not just slightly worse. Much worse.

The worst are rural areas, currently. It has nothing to do with housing layout and a lot to do with availability of jobs etc.

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#110

Post by mrep »

cozzyd wrote: post #7

I wonder if preferences are correlated or anticorrelated with how one grew up (maybe people who grew up in suburbs might think it's too boring, but people who grew up in the city might think it's too loud).

I grew up in the suburbs, now live in downtown seattle, and my girlfriend and I 100% plan to move to the suburbs once we get married/start having kids for the reasons Turing_machine stated: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17379068
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