Live data from Hacker News

Poverty reduces brainpower needed for navigating other areas of life (2013)

princeton.edu

21–30 of 178 posts

Re: Poverty reduces brainpower needed for navigating other areas of life (2013)

#21

If it's true then... Obviously, if a person's brain is affected by poverty, the market isn't going to offer them the equal opportunity when that opportunity can go to the person (rich) whose brain is not limited by poverty. UBI won't help them much! They'll still feel poor even if they've money to meet the absolute basics for a good quality of life. I think a possible solution is to make it a law that a marriage is "…

[deleted]

Re: Poverty reduces brainpower needed for navigating other areas of life (2013)

#22
post #6

At one point in the past I was most definitely dealing with poverty and I found it a lot more difficult to get development tasks done at work. The reduced mental capacity is really noticeable but importantly it's also temporary. Since then I've kept an eye out for disadvantaged people who do good development work. If they are able to produce things despite having a reduced capacity it's such a good sign that they hav…

Mullainathan and Shafir are indeed co-authors on the study cited in this article.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/341/6149/976

I also second the recommendation for 'Scarcity'.

Re: Poverty reduces brainpower needed for navigating other areas of life (2013)

#23

Basic income. The older I get the more I strongly hope that the future finds some version of the ideas currently in research and testing regarding basic life support to all peoples. There is so much to gain by doing so, for everyone, whether you personally need it or not.

> There is so much to gain by doing so, for everyon Not for everyone. For young people. The way we’ll get UBI is by repurposing Social Security and possibly Medicare funds for its purpose. That, in turn, requires millenials turn out to vote.

I think it would be simpler to repurpose the military budget.

Re: Poverty reduces brainpower needed for navigating other areas of life (2013)

#24

Any social study that doesn't control for genes is a worthless study. Do a twin study or don't even bother.

This study accounts for that in all the experiments described. They send financial problems at random to people. That means the genes of the individuals will be random.

The sugar farmers in India also present a good random experiment because they are not picking people based on whether they are rich or poor already, but based on how things turn out from one rather random event: the harvest.

Saying categorically: "Any social study that doesn't control for genes is a worthless study. Do a twin study or don't even bother."

Just shows ignorance on the matter. 1) Genetics wont affect a lot of studies. 2) Twin studies are not the gold standard you seem believe it is. Adopted children in twin studies are usually not adopted into a random environment, since the requirements are high. When the environment is stable and has little variation, then most of the variation you measure will be heritable, thus falsely setting heritability very high.

Re: Poverty reduces brainpower needed for navigating other areas of life (2013)

#25

Basic income. The older I get the more I strongly hope that the future finds some version of the ideas currently in research and testing regarding basic life support to all peoples. There is so much to gain by doing so, for everyone, whether you personally need it or not.

325 million people in the US. Give each person $10k so they can feed themselves and live in a tent.

That's 3.25 trillion dollars.

The total federal budget in 2015 was 3.8 trillion dollars [0]. After we disband the army, navy and air force, liquidate medicare, medicade and social security where do you think we should get the missing 1 trillion or so from?

[0] https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-bud...

Re: Poverty reduces brainpower needed for navigating other areas of life (2013)

#26
post #25

Basic income. The older I get the more I strongly hope that the future finds some version of the ideas currently in research and testing regarding basic life support to all peoples. There is so much to gain by doing so, for everyone, whether you personally need it or not.

325 million people in the US. Give each person $10k so they can feed themselves and live in a tent. That's 3.25 trillion dollars. The total federal budget in 2015 was 3.8 trillion dollars [0]. After we disband the army, navy and air force, liquidate medicare, medicade and social security where do you think we should get the missing 1 trillion or so from? [0] https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-bu…

Do you really think everyone of the 325 million will be a recipient of the $10k income, or perhaps only the ones that earn the least? Is this a proposal any sane advocate of UBI has put forward, or are you perhaps strawmanning a slight bit?

I am not necessarily in agreement with everything UBI related, but adding noise to the conversation isn't going to get us to any insights any quicker.

Re: Poverty reduces brainpower needed for navigating other areas of life (2013)

#27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

325 million people in the US. Give each person $10k so they can feed themselves and live in a tent. That's 3.25 trillion dollars. The total federal budget in 2015 was 3.8 trillion dollars [0]. After we disband the army, navy and air force, liquidate medicare, medicade and social security where do you think we should get the missing 1 trillion or so from? [0] https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-bu…

Do you really think everyone of the 325 million will be a recipient of the $10k income, or perhaps only the ones that earn the least? Is this a proposal any sane advocate of UBI has put forward, or are you perhaps strawmanning a slight bit? I am not necessarily in agreement with everything UBI related, but adding noise to the conversation isn't going to get us to any insights any quicker.

Not to be glib but _Universal_ rather implies something.

Re: Poverty reduces brainpower needed for navigating other areas of life (2013)

#28

Basic income. The older I get the more I strongly hope that the future finds some version of the ideas currently in research and testing regarding basic life support to all peoples. There is so much to gain by doing so, for everyone, whether you personally need it or not.

> There is so much to gain by doing so, for everyon Not for everyone. For young people. The way we’ll get UBI is by repurposing Social Security and possibly Medicare funds for its purpose. That, in turn, requires millenials turn out to vote.

Here's the thing about the "young people" argument: the young, because time, live in a world built by the old. Everything from the physical infrastructure to the social institutions. So if paying for pensions is a wealth transfer from young to old, usage of the built environment is the opposite flow.

In other words, the people who built say the roads did so for a package of renumeration that included a salary and a pension. Now you are proposing to renege on half of that deal. Fine - but stop using the roads you didn't pay to build in the first place. Stop using the technology that you didn't pay to do the basic research for. Not such an attractive deal now is it?

Re: Poverty reduces brainpower needed for navigating other areas of life (2013)

#29
I understand that these super-priveleged elite think they are helping the poor by giving them an excuse for their condition, but this is nothing but insult. If you take out ‘poor’ and replace it with ‘negro’ you get exactly the same kind of pandering pseudoscientific p-hacked contemptuous bullshit that was used to justify one group’s superiority over another for centuries, as well as the absolute insolvency of their condition, necessitating a system of permanent child-like welfare dependence. You may feel good about your empathy, but few that would deserve it appreciate it one bit. The desire for pity is a mental disease of the wealthy. Don’t put it on poor people to adopt your sickness. Trust that rich people’s brains are just as distracted, and their decisions, given the same information and experience, are probably just as bad.

Re: Poverty reduces brainpower needed for navigating other areas of life (2013)

#30
post #3

I can vouch for that. As a company founder who has not raised any funding, meeting payroll and other expenses month on month is so mentally exhausting that it leaves little for other tasks. I think, in a way, the brains of startup founders and those below poverty lines work in the same way.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17379724 and marked it off-topic.
Post reply on HN