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How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story

nytimes.com

11–20 of 63 posts

Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story

#11
The other week my internet went out. I felt disconnected, like there was a part of me reaching out, hungry, for entertainment and more, and it felt like it was just landing on the ground.

Perhaps a part of self absorption is self discovery, finding a kindredness with others(and now we can kindle that with unlimited numbers online), which makes us feel the ability to constantly reinvent, which becomes an ongoing experiment.

In a way self absorption could be: how do we process and make relevant, to our own experience, all this new information the internet brings.

Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story

#12
post #8

"There was always a dark side to the Human Potential Movement. If a positive attitude and a sense of self-worth are what matters for success, then failure is always your own fault." I always thought my alma mater, Stanford, was backwards about students suffering from depression for exactly that reason. Promoting positivity is great, unless it means ostracizing and shaming people who are already suffering. It was hard…

Also, being positive solely for the sake of being positive short-circuits our ability to process a decently large chunk of life. This isn’t to say that being a whiny grouch is good, but that sugarcoating things is not a healthy way to look at the world. Sometimes life sucks. Sometimes shitty things happen. Sometimes people are assholes. Take away the ability to credibly discuss those things as negative, and you take…

> Take away the ability to credibly discuss those things as negative, and you take away the ability to comprehend and solve some very real problems.

I think it follows that you also take away the ability to honestly reflect upon and comprehend one's own behavior. For this reason I've come to the belief that the trend to encourage people to "never regret" limits self-growth and even limits empathy[1].

Maybe it's the latent Catholic in me, but regret and shame are very primitive and _necessary_ emotions. Yes, they're often abused by society and individuals to harm others. But to recognize that doesn't require that they should be denied or suppressed. Empathy and sympathy can be manipulated to harm people, too; that doesn't mean people should instead become hardened sociopaths. The only difference here is that empathy (especially when received) is pleasurable, while regret and shame are painful. But to believe that distinction makes one legitimate and constructive and the other illegitimate and destructive is fundamentally hedonistic and narcissistic. These emotions are largely environmental inputs (directly or indirectly, immediate and latent) that we need to learn to affirmatively assimilate to better understand ourselves and the world around us. Denying, suppressing, or categorically desensitizing oneself to these emotions is not assimilation; quite the opposite.

[1] For example, by obscuring one's own hypocrisy--living by a rule that says never judge oneself is much easier than living by a rule that says never judge someone else. So it exacerbates an asymmetry between understanding one's own secret motivations and understanding someone else's secret motivations.

Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story

#13
A ton of weird stuff from that time seems to run through Esalen. I will read this or that history of computing/hippies/etc and boom, Esalen.

Strange how influence works.

Anyway, beyond that... this is something I've been contemplating for a long time. I would actually agree with the other HN poster that New Thought was a contributing factor. I also locate part of the hyper-individualism at play today in the reaction to the Soviet Union's collectivism and Nazi Germany's mass movements. There seemed to have been a certain "inoculation" that was put in people's heads that "collaborating in large groups was e.v.i.l."; this later cropped out to Reagan's nostrum "government is the problem", along with the decline of labor, etc. The Me Decade was what, the 70s, and then on into the 80s. I recently read "We were as gods", a memoir & history about growing up in a Vermont commune in the 70s and how those communes fell apart. The author locates the major root cause (out of many factors) in the inability to form a proper governance mechanism and in the heavy "can't tell ME what to do" individualism in the movement.

So.... we have selfies, dysfunctional governments, libertarian fascism, and gig economies today. There are links here between all 4. (Although, an astute observer remarked that "self portraits" are an old tradition of painters, so it's prudent not to point a finger too, ehm, pointedly at the moderns).

Anyway, I view movements such as the DSA as a sign of a more healthy society struggling to come into being - the individual is important - but so is society and the group. N.b., this isn't particularly liberal as an idea goes - I seem to remember remarks on this from the Mass. Bay Colony chiefs, and at least one part of that concept goes back to early Christian writings.

Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story

#14

The review is worth reading but the conclusion's succinctness struck me: "In other words: If you want self-esteem, earn it."

There's another half to this advice: if you have clearly improved yourself, you should consciously add on some self-esteem.

I say this as someone who was depressed about who I was, affected a lot of (positive, by most standards) change in myself over several years, but didn't catch my self-esteem up for several more. The initial painful spark to improve yourself can be good and is I think underrated today, but nurturing it can hurt you even as it makes you strong.

Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story

#15
post #13

A ton of weird stuff from that time seems to run through Esalen. I will read this or that history of computing/hippies/etc and boom, Esalen. Strange how influence works. Anyway, beyond that... this is something I've been contemplating for a long time. I would actually agree with the other HN poster that New Thought was a contributing factor. I also locate part of the hyper-individualism at play today in the reaction…

> libertarian fascism

What does this mean?

Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story

#16

[flagged]

If it makes you feel any better, most of The New York Times is just advertorials and a subversive promulgation of government agendas.

In a sense, it's already all bought and paid for, as with most "news" outlets, and the same is true for HN, albeit with a specialization for technology.

Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story

#17
A significant problem of the self esteem and positive thinking movements is the way in which it removes focus from the structural political, social and economic reasons that so strongly influence “success” and therefore “happiness” in the world. I think we will see the pendulum swing back as narcissistic populist politicians unwittingly remind us of this.

Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story

#18
I did a couple Lifespring courses back in the early 90's at the behest of my dad - which was surprising given he is a staunch Roman Catholic - who found them enlightening. I too found them to be eye-opening. The experiential learning approach was profoundly effective.

E.g. one exercise conducted on the very first day - so that no one really new who anyone else was - involved 5 minutes of wandering around the room in silence, approaching another and looking at them for approx 5 secs. You then had to say one of two things: "I trust you." or "I don't trust you."

There was only one person who I labeled as untrustworthy. I vividly remember his image and that he looked like the stereotype of a used car salesman. However by the end of the seminar I found him to be a smart, witty, sensitive and caring individual. The exact opposite of my initial evaluation.

I knew that one shouldn't "judge a book by its cover" ever since I was little but that experience and others like them in those seminars really set me back on my heels. I still recall it when I have an initial adverse reaction to someone new.

Unfortunately after finishing the 2nd seminar the whole Amway/pyramid-scheme aspect of it kicked in and completely turned me off and I cut ties altogether. However I still think that I might be a little worse off for not having gone through that.

Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story

#20
post #6

The BBC documentary “Century of The Self” available on YouTube also highlights the ways in which everything happening at Esalen were leveraged to manufacture more consumerism. Great watch.

Curtis's docos (and some parodies of them) are excellent at many levels.
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