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Show HN: Material Dashboard – Free Admin for Bootstrap 4, React, Angular, Vue.js

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Re: Show HN: Material Dashboard – Free Admin for Bootstrap 4, React, Angular, Vue.js

#91
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also find the ripple effect[1] when pressing things to be infuriating. Just do the action I've asked, don't do this animation and delay the action by half a second. Again, this is somewhat irrational, but it still bothers me. It is not irrational to want your device and the software you use on it to be as high-performance as possible. In my opinion, unless we're talking about a game, software should always avoid…

Yes, and no. While nobody likes excessive animation, it is very important to let the user know their input was received. It's why the cursor changes on mouseover. It's how you know if the app is crashed, or merely processing something you requested. I've seen a million times in UX testing where ordinary people go click... wait... click click click click click because they didn't receive any feedback to an action. At…

> While nobody likes excessive animation, it is very important to let the user know their input was received. It's why the cursor changes on mouseover. It's how you know if the app is crashed, or merely processing something you requested.

I said, "Of course, if an animation is playing while something else is happening, that is acceptable." Yes, play an animation while actual work is happening. That provides the feedback you are describing, which is useful if and when the application cannot respond to user input immediately.

However, my point was that many applications, due to laziness of designers and/or programmers, play an animation and then begin to execute the work requested. The facile argument made by these designers is that the animation is relatively brief—say 300ms—so it's not a "big deal." But I contend that delaying the initiation of requested execution is disrespecting the user's time, regardless of how long the delay is.

To reiterate: beginning the work effort and then concurrently playing an animation is good and should be encouraged. Playing an animation to completion and then beginning the work effort is bad and should be avoided.

The theoretical ideal is to respond in 0ms. If the work takes 50ms, it's best to start the work immediately then start playing an interruptible animation. The user may see a couple frames of the animation. Far worse to play a 300ms animation to completion, then start the 50ms of work.

> I've seen a million times in UX testing where ordinary people go click... wait... click click click click click because they didn't receive any feedback to an action.

Agreed! While doing lengthy operations, play an animation and disable the button. But don't delay beginning the work until after the animation completes, even if that animation is only 300ms.

> In the real world, nothing is ever "full stop." You should purge that phrase from your lexicon.

I said "Disrespecting the user's time is disrespecting the user, full stop."

I stand by the decisiveness of that statement. In my opinion, disrespecting the user's time is equivalent to disrespecting the user. I will retain the phrase in my lexicon, thank you.

Re: Show HN: Material Dashboard – Free Admin for Bootstrap 4, React, Angular, Vue.js

#92
I think this is why folks give Material UI so much grief.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_astonishmen...

And I would not be so quick to pat Apple on the back, as I feel they have on gone backwards vis a vis the above principle when they largely abandonded skeuomorphism.

Re: Show HN: Material Dashboard – Free Admin for Bootstrap 4, React, Angular, Vue.js

#93
post #8
post #6

Nice theme. I like how it uses the big 3 FE frameworks. Big shout out to Ngx-Admin as well. https://github.com/akveo/ngx-admin

Congrats! Are you the owner of that dashboard? Maybe we can join our forces :D

Nope, but I wish I was.

Re: Show HN: Material Dashboard – Free Admin for Bootstrap 4, React, Angular, Vue.js

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the real world, nothing is ever "full stop." You should purge that phrase from your lexicon. Not to get further off topic, but: Huh? "Full stop" just means "end of message". It's an amusing leftover from telegraph technologies that people sometimes use for emphasis, but it doesn't have a literal meaning more than just "end of message".

It is interesting how the phrase's meaning has transformed. Nowadays people generally use it to add emphasis such that the previous statement is an absolute truth with no valid argument to the contrary.

Yep, it's a bit of verbal color to add emphasis to a statement. Much like declaring things that are actually quite ordinary and did not fill you with awe but are otherwise positive as "awesome."

Re: Show HN: Material Dashboard – Free Admin for Bootstrap 4, React, Angular, Vue.js

#95
post #80

I dunno, looks slick but I do wonder how much of this is actually useful for building an admin interface. Once I've got decent form styles and a navbar I find that most of the rest is either very simple, or very application specific. Widgets are cool, but mostly we need tables and forms.

> Widgets are cool, but mostly we need tables and forms. This (though I agree with sibling comment about a few more being useful). I reviewed 20 popular admin themes last month for our startup, and was v disappointed with them. Either due to code quality, or throwing in loads of useless widgets which are more consumer rather than business oriented. There's a gap for a theme that's more like Stripe's dashboard, not th…

Wow, thanks for the link to Clarity. That looks like something we could get a lot of use out of.

We're currently using Looper[0], but even that is a little too opinionated and visually "heavy" for business apps where productivity and clarity are paramount.

[0] https://themes.getbootstrap.com/product/looper-responsive-ad...

Re: Show HN: Material Dashboard – Free Admin for Bootstrap 4, React, Angular, Vue.js

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and no. While nobody likes excessive animation, it is very important to let the user know their input was received. It's why the cursor changes on mouseover. It's how you know if the app is crashed, or merely processing something you requested. I've seen a million times in UX testing where ordinary people go click... wait... click click click click click because they didn't receive any feedback to an action. At…

> In the real world, nothing is ever "full stop." You should purge that phrase from your lexicon. Not to get further off topic, but: Huh? "Full stop" just means "end of message". It's an amusing leftover from telegraph technologies that people sometimes use for emphasis, but it doesn't have a literal meaning more than just "end of message".

It's the same as ending a statement with "period." As in, "We connect people. Period." said by a Facebook exec to justify their use of dark patterns. It's for emphasis.

Re: Show HN: Material Dashboard – Free Admin for Bootstrap 4, React, Angular, Vue.js

#97

Do people actually like Material for browsers on desktops? I tried it - as it would be great to have an opinionated design language with good framework implementations but it seems to make the same mistake as Windows 8 in trying to treat everything like a phone. That really isn't nice on a desktop.

As a long time Android developer I find material design to be actually good, esp. since Google offers a lot of it out of the box for us. What I find disappointing is the world jumping on it and then clinging to it as if this is it and that's it. I have noticed a lot of apps have kind of stopped (not universally though) going for new, unique and innovative designs.

Now the desktop browser web apps...

Re: Show HN: Material Dashboard – Free Admin for Bootstrap 4, React, Angular, Vue.js

#98
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the banks I used "updated" their iOS app and used Material Design. It's infuriating. The thing that bothers me the most is the "switches" (3rd example here[0]). My first thought upon updating the app was "Why did they reinvent the toggle switch when iOS has a perfectly good one built in?" Being bothered by this is irrational, yet I'm bothered by it all the same. I also find the ripple effect[1] when pressing t…

One way to give a user feedback that they’ve tapped something without wasting their time is a to start an effect onTouch, but don’t necessarily wait for it to finish all the way if the you get a touchComplete. That way the user knows what they’re tapping on, and if they’re making a mistake they’ll move their finger to a safer zone before lifting. And no extra time is wasted.

The ripple effect doesn't end when I finish the touch though, the app waits for it to complete the animation before doing the thing that I asked. That's the infuriating part.

Another thing that really bothers me: They've got all kinds of iOS-specific stuff in the app - Apple Pay, 3D Touch previews, Touch ID for login. They clearly went to a lot of effort to support stuff that's specific to Apple devices, why didn't they just go the extra mile and actually make it look and feel like an iOS application?

This is one of the big five Canadian banks. Their net income is over $1B every quarter. Surely they can afford to hire an iOS dev to do the app natively.

Re: Show HN: Material Dashboard – Free Admin for Bootstrap 4, React, Angular, Vue.js

#99

I strongly do not like the design. To my taste: * colors are too bright and saturated * Low text-vs-background contrast: white letters on bright yellow-orange for example * Font strokes are way too thin which is especially bad compounded with dark-ish gray on light-ish gray low contrast (see above) Viewing this on a usual normal-resolution 24" Dell monitor. It could be that it looks better on retina phones and monito…

> * colors are too bright and saturated * Low text-vs-background contrast: white letters on bright yellow-orange for example * Font strokes are way too thin which is especially bad compounded with dark-ish gray on light-ish gray low contrast if only there some some sort of style sheet which was easily modifiable so that its changes cascaded down into every selector you had a problem with. making such a system seems l…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Material Dashboard – Free Admin for Bootstrap 4, React, Angular, Vue.js

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, for one, do not. Material Design, and the other flat themes are horrible on the web because they ignore established conventions and disregard affordance. Even on mobile I don't know what's click... tappable.

That is my biggest complaint with Material Design. It’s great if you already know what all the icons mean and what you are supposed to click. Apple design, by contrast is generally very obvious and instantly understandable. Look at the Apple Music app on iOS: pretty much every icon is labeled. You don’t have to guess where “My Library” is or fumble around trying to figure it out. Google Hangouts on the other hand.. I…

> Apple design, by contrast is very obvious.

Surely this is a joke? The million different gestures are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Apple and interface discoverability.

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