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What happens when it's all glass?

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Re: What happens when it's all glass?

#41

Post by tjogin »

I think Jason is wrong about industrial design being the singular primary differentiator for Apple devices.

Sure, Lenovos look like shit next to a MacBook, but people buy Lenovos for entirely different reasons and the rugged design plays in their favor.

Other competitors offer laptops with near Apple levels of hardware design — certainly near enough to meet Jason's criteria of "immediately obvious".

I think software is the primary differentiator between iPhone and some of the better looking Android devices, between MacBook and some of the better looking PC laptops. Software, and some of the, by Jason's definition, "less obvious" hardware attributes, like screen quality, UI responsiveness, precision, etc.

The simpler the hardware gets, the more important and immediate these attributes become. This only plays in Apple's favor, and is in my opinion what has already been so hard for Nokia to deal with; they're a hardware company with poor software chops. Superficial industrial design is easy to emulate or fake, to a certain point. After that, it becomes hard, and not many companies other than Apple have the skills or the patience for it. Look at the tragic excuse for a Windows tablet HP is releasing for another example.

Re: What happens when it's all glass?

#42

Post by Timothee »

JoachimSchipper wrote: post #13

> The difference in build quality, materials, and tolerances between a MacBook Pro and a Lenovo are still obvious Yes, ThinkPads are still some of the most sturdy laptops around while MacBooks tend to need more support/repairs. Of course Apple's (repair) service is very good, and MacBooks do look nice(r), but "build quality" means something else to me.

I agree with you, having had my share of back-and-forth with Apple Care.

But I think there's the build quality vs. the durability of the products. For me, Apple products win in build quality in the sense that the pieces are cleanly fabricated, properly aligned, don't wiggle, shake or bend, etc. I've had a ThinkPad and was disappointed from that point of view. Certainly better than many other brands (Dell, Toshiba), but still a bit under Apple.

But as I said, Apple does have some issues of durability. (e.g. MacBook's plastic cases, iPod/iPhone earbuds...)

Re: What happens when it's all glass?

#43

Post by stcredzero »

mdh wrote: post #34
tgriesser wrote: post #7

Everything is turning into a screen, from edge to edge. Once it’s all about glass, it’s all about software. This is assuming that once it's all about glass there isn't anywhere to go. Apple has become a leader in UI design and glass happens to be the current popular choice for devices. 10 years before the iPhone few people would have predicted a phone with no buttons and a glass screen would become popular, and a few…

This is assuming that once it's all about glass there isn't anywhere to go... Agreed. Apple has a patent on multi-touch in three dimensions already[1] so maybe the next i-device will move away from the screen and towards a more touchy-feely :-) approach. [1] - http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=FUOxAAAAEBAJ&dq=m...

maybe the next i-device will move away from the screen and towards a more touchy-feely :-) approach

Once things get to the point where ubiquitous mobile haptics are just around the corner, will Apple's "no porn" policy start to be a big disadvantage?

Re: What happens when it's all glass?

#44

Post by jrockway »

Locke1689 wrote: post #38
ccc3 wrote: post #24

A few points: - Apple is pushing the boundaries of minimalism with their industrial design (to absurd levels in cases like the control-free iPod Shuffle). This is not necessarily better design, but it is the currently fashionable design. I would argue that the single button interface on the iPhone/iPad is an example of moving too far towards minimalism (from a purely functional perspective). The same button now perfo…

- A small point, but I think the comparison between a MacBook Pro an a Lenovo is a bit odd. ThinkPads are not far off from Apple in terms of build quality and are certainly more durable. You're going to have to justify that. A case made out of a solid piece of aluminum is about as durable as I can think of in consumer-level products. I beat the crap out of my MBP and it doesn't have so much as a scratch on it.

Yeah, but the Thinkpads are even stronger. You can dump a glass of water on the keyboard and it keeps working, because all the liquid is routed through special drainage holes. You can drive a car over the screen because they put reinforcements (magnesium, I believe) in just the right places. 100% Al is limiting -- you can't use a stronger-but-heavier material anywhere.

They're also hard to take apart. Changing a dead hard drive is a 1 minute operation with a Thinkpad. With a Macbook... well, you can't even change the battery anymore...

Re: What happens when it's all glass?

#45

Post by gonehome »

danilocampos wrote: post #12

It's interesting insight, but look at it like this... Apple's dominance isn't from hardware alone. But they are exceptionally talented at it. It isn't in software alone, but again, they know what they're doing. They've got a lot of mature, battle tested code and an outstanding developer community who knows how to wield it. It's not in digital distribution alone, but yet again, they got there very early, have a lot of…

I think their extreme attention to detail and strong control over every aspect of their product will allow them to remain successful especially within a certain niche. Competition from more free/open alternatives will likely prevent apple from getting to or retaining the number one spot for any length of time though. Apple does things a very specific way and they're damn good at the way they do them.

Re: What happens when it's all glass?

#46

Post by cma »

tjogin wrote: post #41

I think Jason is wrong about industrial design being the singular primary differentiator for Apple devices. Sure, Lenovos look like shit next to a MacBook, but people buy Lenovos for entirely different reasons and the rugged design plays in their favor. Other competitors offer laptops with near Apple levels of hardware design — certainly near enough to meet Jason's criteria of "immediately obvious". I think software…

Compare the ratio of Mac Books to Thinkpads in a marketing class with the same ratio in a sociology class.

(Note: I deliberately didn't choose, say, an Art class vs. an Engineering class, because what I'm getting at is the conspicuous consumption angle, not the ease of use/technical ability angle).

Re: What happens when it's all glass?

#48

Post by adambyrtek »

msbarnett wrote: post #9
bad_user wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The beauty in Android is that it doesn't have to be the best ... it just has to be good enough + shipped on cheaper phones ... just like Windows did. Also, I've got an iPhone 3GS, and I see lots of area for improvement ... the biggest annoyance for me being that all these apps I have (Facebook, Twitter, Skype, yahoo messenger) ... are not using the iPhone's contacts list for storing people profiles ... so even Apple…

> the biggest annoyance for me being that all these apps I have (Facebook, Twitter, Skype, yahoo messenger) ... are not using the iPhone's contacts list for storing people profiles ... so even Apple screws things up in the details department. I'm not sure that's a screw-up so much as a philosophical view of the contact list as being for actual contacts and not random twitter user names with no associated addresses, p…

When it comes to Android you can choose to synchronize only those Twitter/Facebook profiles that have an existing address book entry. Thanks to that the list is not littered with useless contacts and you have all kinds of information, like the recent status update or profile photo, integrated under a single address book. Very handy.

Re: What happens when it's all glass?

#49

Post by DougBTX »

jrockway wrote: post #44
Locke1689 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- A small point, but I think the comparison between a MacBook Pro an a Lenovo is a bit odd. ThinkPads are not far off from Apple in terms of build quality and are certainly more durable. You're going to have to justify that. A case made out of a solid piece of aluminum is about as durable as I can think of in consumer-level products. I beat the crap out of my MBP and it doesn't have so much as a scratch on it.

Yeah, but the Thinkpads are even stronger. You can dump a glass of water on the keyboard and it keeps working, because all the liquid is routed through special drainage holes. You can drive a car over the screen because they put reinforcements (magnesium, I believe) in just the right places. 100% Al is limiting -- you can't use a stronger-but-heavier material anywhere . They're also hard to take apart. Changing a dea…

A bunch of screws, but not overly difficult: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-17-Inch-Unibody-T...

Re: What happens when it's all glass?

#50

Post by [deleted] »

jrockway wrote: post #44
Locke1689 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- A small point, but I think the comparison between a MacBook Pro an a Lenovo is a bit odd. ThinkPads are not far off from Apple in terms of build quality and are certainly more durable. You're going to have to justify that. A case made out of a solid piece of aluminum is about as durable as I can think of in consumer-level products. I beat the crap out of my MBP and it doesn't have so much as a scratch on it.

Yeah, but the Thinkpads are even stronger. You can dump a glass of water on the keyboard and it keeps working, because all the liquid is routed through special drainage holes. You can drive a car over the screen because they put reinforcements (magnesium, I believe) in just the right places. 100% Al is limiting -- you can't use a stronger-but-heavier material anywhere . They're also hard to take apart. Changing a dea…

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