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Mysterious ‘Jumping Gene’ That Appears 500k Times in Human DNA

theatlantic.com

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Re: Mysterious ‘Jumping Gene’ That Appears 500k Times in Human DNA

#21

Post by otherme123 »

madaxe_again wrote: post #6

A few years ago I read Nick Lane’s The vital Question , which explored “junk DNA” extensively, in the context of abiogenesis. The analogy I particularly liked was that they are little turing machines, and the very original stuff of life - indiscriminate, self-replicating, and therefore part of the bootstrap for everything that came after. Also, more on LiNE. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrotransposon#LINEs

They're not self-auto-replicating. They need the host cell machinery to do so, thus they can not be the original stuff of life.

They are a very specialized DNA chunks that retains the absolute bare minimal needs to trick a host to replicate them. They are parasites.

Re: Mysterious ‘Jumping Gene’ That Appears 500k Times in Human DNA

#22

Post by Razengan »

orf wrote: post #15
Retric wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what? Are you arguing that 'god(s)' where and or might be incompetent? Anyway, I don't think ID requires that every mutation was designed, rather that an intelegent agent made at least one adjustment to an ongoing process. The problem is it's not a falsifiable theory because it makes no specific testable predictions.

If there is a god you could hardly call him incompetent after creating life. That doesn't exclude hacks or workarounds

Why a god? Why not many?

Humans have been modifying organisms for thousands of years, through selective breeding and cultivation.

Does that not count as a form of intelligent design?

Is it detectable?

If not, who is to say it hasn’t been done with us?

Re: Mysterious ‘Jumping Gene’ That Appears 500k Times in Human DNA

#23

Post by [deleted] »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #16
Retric wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what? Are you arguing that 'god(s)' where and or might be incompetent? Anyway, I don't think ID requires that every mutation was designed, rather that an intelegent agent made at least one adjustment to an ongoing process. The problem is it's not a falsifiable theory because it makes no specific testable predictions.

> Wait what? Are you arguing that 'god(s)' where and or might be incompetent? I get the humor in your question. Yet I would like to comment for the people who might be more seriously interested in this question, that the most enlightened view seems to be that 'god(s)' are not incompetent, but are simply not done yet, they haven't completed the design. That the design itself is not a finished final product, but rather…

[deleted]

Re: Mysterious ‘Jumping Gene’ That Appears 500k Times in Human DNA

#24

Post by menacingly »

PaulAJ wrote: post #2

The parasite theory is that transposons are rather like early computer viruses that replicated by embedding themselves in other executables: they exist only to make copies of themselves in their host genome. This theory is not incompatible with these results. Evolution is not a rational design process. Once a transposon starts replicating it is quite possible for the host genome to evolve to incorporate the transposo…

I'm not usually much of an intelligent design advocate, but approaching it from the angle that we know enough right now to make definitive calls as to the merits of different genetic approaches is hubris _at best_.

Not to mention the sneaky embedded assumption that an engineering approach is even the best way to go.

Re: Mysterious ‘Jumping Gene’ That Appears 500k Times in Human DNA

#25

Post by Brockenstein »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #16
Retric wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what? Are you arguing that 'god(s)' where and or might be incompetent? Anyway, I don't think ID requires that every mutation was designed, rather that an intelegent agent made at least one adjustment to an ongoing process. The problem is it's not a falsifiable theory because it makes no specific testable predictions.

> Wait what? Are you arguing that 'god(s)' where and or might be incompetent? I get the humor in your question. Yet I would like to comment for the people who might be more seriously interested in this question, that the most enlightened view seems to be that 'god(s)' are not incompetent, but are simply not done yet, they haven't completed the design. That the design itself is not a finished final product, but rather…

>basically that no scientific truth can be an argument for or against any spiritual claim

Well that's not quite true. Religious people often make authoritative claims about life, the universe and everything based on their beliefs that can shown to be demonstrably wrong with science. While that may not make the unfalsifiable stuff sink, it certain doesn't speak well if your special, divine, or privileged spiritual knowledge results in nonsense and garbage when the rubber hits the road.

Re: Mysterious ‘Jumping Gene’ That Appears 500k Times in Human DNA

#28

Post by ufo »

snarfy wrote: post #9
PaulAJ wrote: post #2

The parasite theory is that transposons are rather like early computer viruses that replicated by embedding themselves in other executables: they exist only to make copies of themselves in their host genome. This theory is not incompatible with these results. Evolution is not a rational design process. Once a transposon starts replicating it is quite possible for the host genome to evolve to incorporate the transposo…

> no sane engineer would have done it like that. You should read the story of Mel [1]. [1] - http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html

Mel's code is highly efficient and information dense. It's as non-biological as it can get :)

Re: Mysterious ‘Jumping Gene’ That Appears 500k Times in Human DNA

#29

Post by ufo »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #12

> "Geneticists tend to pay attention when LINE1 inserts itself in a bad place, causing cancer or genetic disorders like hemophilia." But it's not always doing bad, correct? The point being, these random insertions are not only part of the process, they are key. Without deviation these is no evolving.

Transposons are waaay more likely to break things than to evolve them in a positive direction

Re: Mysterious ‘Jumping Gene’ That Appears 500k Times in Human DNA

#30

Post by mallomarmeasle »

dfsegoat wrote: post #20
lkrubner wrote: post #18

If you are interested in this, you might also be interested in "promoter genes" which tend to be destructive to the organism they are part of, but which are also very good at promoting themselves, so they survive in the genome despite being harmful. A good book on the subject: Genes in Conflict: The Biology of Selfish Genetic Elements https://www.amazon.com/Genes-Conflict-Biology-Selfish-Elemen...

Indeed. It is this sort of "worm-like" or "near-virus" -like behavior of these genes (transposons, promoters, etc) that made me decide to split the difference between comp sci and molecular biology (bioinformatics) as an undergrad. Nevermind the mitochondria - the powerhouse of our cells - which is basically believed to be a bacterial companion that our single celled ancestors integrated so tightly with - that it bec…

Mitochondria are indeed thought to have arisen from incorporation of free-living organisms, but interestingly they mostly retain their own replicating DNA that is not incorporated into our genome [1]. 1- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA
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