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I Stop Celebrities from Blowing Their Money

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Re: I Stop Celebrities from Blowing Their Money

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual libertarians rather than the confused type so popular in the US are all for it. Look at anarcho-syndacilists for example

Yep. Though we're a rare breed I'll admit, I'm an American libertarian and I'm supportive of unions and collective bargaining. I have a caveat in that I don't support laws that interfere with such bargaining or artificially increase one party's market power (closed shop laws). In the US this identifies me as being "right to work" which is often seen as anti-union. For example I don't support the UAW due to their long…

>For example I don't support the UAW due to their long history of using the state to increase their market power.

That's a fair caveat from a libertarian standpoint. It's just that most of the self-declared libertarians I meet seem to have the idea that the state should forbid unions from interfering with their idea of a free market. Which sounds very unlibertarian to me.

Re: I Stop Celebrities from Blowing Their Money

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual libertarians rather than the confused type so popular in the US are all for it. Look at anarcho-syndacilists for example

Yep. Though we're a rare breed I'll admit, I'm an American libertarian and I'm supportive of unions and collective bargaining. I have a caveat in that I don't support laws that interfere with such bargaining or artificially increase one party's market power (closed shop laws). In the US this identifies me as being "right to work" which is often seen as anti-union. For example I don't support the UAW due to their long…

When people say they “support unions” they mean that they support laws that “artificially increase one side’s bargaining power”, which you say you don’t. The most important of such laws are ones that inhibit employers from replacing striking workers.

Re: I Stop Celebrities from Blowing Their Money

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual libertarians rather than the confused type so popular in the US are all for it. Look at anarcho-syndacilists for example

Yep. Though we're a rare breed I'll admit, I'm an American libertarian and I'm supportive of unions and collective bargaining. I have a caveat in that I don't support laws that interfere with such bargaining or artificially increase one party's market power (closed shop laws). In the US this identifies me as being "right to work" which is often seen as anti-union. For example I don't support the UAW due to their long…

There is nothing 'classic liberally' wrong with unions if they don't require everybody in the profession to adhere to them and don't have a monopoly

Re: I Stop Celebrities from Blowing Their Money

#84
post #3

A long time ago, in a job (thankfully) far far away I had to have a fair bit of interaction with famous people. Some of them are crazy - one of the artists (now dead) demanded "more goat heads" on his project. This was an actual client request. I still do take pride in getting one of the most difficult clients in the roster to admit we did a "good job". Famous people can be weird, and some do really exist in their ow…

Reminds me of Kevin Smith's Prince story [1].

1: https://speakola.com/arts/kevin-smith-on-prince-2002

Re: I Stop Celebrities from Blowing Their Money

#85
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really shows how us Plebians are ground into dust by the healthcare industry Or the benefits of collective bargaining, even in limited context like procuring healthcare.

This is one of things I always wonder about. Libertarians and other free-market enthusiasts should actually be for collective bargaining and unions. Because in an actual free market it's legal to form unions, just like it's legal to form a corporation. Collective bargaining is a feature of a free market. If you don't like the idea of unions and collective bargaining, you don't like free markets.

As a libertarian, what bothers me is the mandatory union. If you want to unionize, go on a strike or whatever, I'm OK with that. But if I don't want to, respect me and leave me alone.

Re: I Stop Celebrities from Blowing Their Money

#86
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really shows how us Plebians are ground into dust by the healthcare industry Or the benefits of collective bargaining, even in limited context like procuring healthcare.

This is one of things I always wonder about. Libertarians and other free-market enthusiasts should actually be for collective bargaining and unions. Because in an actual free market it's legal to form unions, just like it's legal to form a corporation. Collective bargaining is a feature of a free market. If you don't like the idea of unions and collective bargaining, you don't like free markets.

> Libertarians and other free-market enthusiasts should actually be for collective bargaining and unions.

This depends on what you mean by "be for collective bargaining". As in most things, the details matter, and the slogan "be for unions" is almost meaningless.

In the sense that people should be able to form and/or join unions etc, then absolutely, I think most libertarians would be totally for it.

But often when people say you're for or against unions, they're talking about specific laws with specific consequences. For example, should an employer have the right to fire an employee who is attempting to start a union? A libertarian might well say that both sides have liberties that shouldn't be taken away in this case. If the employee manages to start a union and gets collective bargaining power - good for them! But the government shouldn't intrude on the employer's right to fire employees if it so chooses, no matter what the cause.

Another example - many countries have laws that say that if some percentage of the workforce, say 30%, agrees to form a union, then all employees are now automatically part of that union. This makes it much easier to form unions, obviously, and you might make the case that it helps protect the usually-less-powerful employees from the usually-more-powerful employer. On the other hand, this often means that individual employees don't have the freedom to negotiate their own specific terms with the employers, even if they prefer not to be part of the union. Or that the employees now must pay money into the union, whether they want to or not.

Again, all of these are legitimate debates and most of the sides of this can be defended. But the slogan "you should be for collective bargaining and unions" just doesn't include enough nuance to even being to address how you should react to each of the above - which are the specific laws that people are talking about when talking about unions.

Re: I Stop Celebrities from Blowing Their Money

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Though we're a rare breed I'll admit, I'm an American libertarian and I'm supportive of unions and collective bargaining. I have a caveat in that I don't support laws that interfere with such bargaining or artificially increase one party's market power (closed shop laws). In the US this identifies me as being "right to work" which is often seen as anti-union. For example I don't support the UAW due to their long…

When people say they “support unions” they mean that they support laws that “artificially increase one side’s bargaining power”, which you say you don’t. The most important of such laws are ones that inhibit employers from replacing striking workers.

Without this law and the corollary of reasonable firing (as in with a lawful reason), unions are dead on arrival as anyone willing to unionize will get fired on the spot.

This is similar to the procedural loophole of registering manifestations where the mayor or other redeposit body can virtually countermand the right to organize. It happens all the time.

Re: I Stop Celebrities from Blowing Their Money

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people say they “support unions” they mean that they support laws that “artificially increase one side’s bargaining power”, which you say you don’t. The most important of such laws are ones that inhibit employers from replacing striking workers.

Without this law and the corollary of reasonable firing (as in with a lawful reason), unions are dead on arrival as anyone willing to unionize will get fired on the spot. This is similar to the procedural loophole of registering manifestations where the mayor or other redeposit body can virtually countermand the right to organize. It happens all the time.

I 100% agree and should have said that in the original post. I’m not exactly sure how I feel about those laws (though I flat out oppose attempts to require cause for firings in general), but I mainly wanted to point out that principled libertarians trying to square the circle, the way the person I was relying to was, are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Unions can only exist and be effective, in the vast majority of cases, because the state uses its coercive power to give them artificially-inflated bargaining power. Whether that’s for the better or worse is a different question.

Re: I Stop Celebrities from Blowing Their Money

#89
post #44

“One thing that’s surprisingly inexpensive for a lot of our clients is health insurance. The insurance policy for members of SAG-AFTRA is amazing. For the money, it is the best health insurance out there. It’s only about $400 per quarter for an individual, so you’re looking at about $1,200 or $1,500 a year for the best PPO coverage in the country. It travels with you everywhere, and you have access to emergency care…

Actually, it shows you plebeians the power of unions.

I have a handful of friends that work in Hollywood as actors and producers. They get paid amazingly well and get insane amounts of time off.

...all because they have organized labor. Most people would be amazed how much an extra gets paid once they have their SAG card.

Many take advantage of unemployment as well since they typically work on contracts. Have several friends that will work for 6 months on a show and then take 3-4 months off while collecting unemployment and figuring out what contract they want to take next.

Re: I Stop Celebrities from Blowing Their Money

#90
post #34

The US does a terrible job of inculcating basic financial literacy in the populace. The only way that paying someone 5% of assets / income just to avoid ruination can be a sound investment is if the person is utterly clueless about how money in general, and compound interest in particular, works.

Not only the US, but in a lot of places.

A large number of these people will have been outside of the "real world" for a good proportion of their adult (and often, child) lives. Without comprehensive financial education early in schools, and with careers in industries detached from a lot of financial pressure, surrounded by hanger-ons and perceptions of lifestyle.

I actually have a lot of empathy for these groups who see success but don't have the skillset to know what's best.

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