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Researchers Find Herpes Viruses in Brains Marked by Alzheimer's Disease

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Re: Researchers Find Herpes Viruses in Brains Marked by Alzheimer's Disease

#71

This is not surprising. At least one study [1] showed 85% of people's brains are PCR-positive for at least HHV-6. It is also important to keep in mind that herpesviruses have evolved with us (and many other species) and in some ways are considered part of our normal flora. They may also play an important role in the proper development of our immune system. The data in this paper is suggestive (and complicated!!), but…

Likewise, detectable RNA/DNA does not mean there's virus (virions). An unusual example, but it's common to have Ebola virus RNA in semen (a fluid from another immuno-privileged site) with no detectable virus for months after primary infection. ( https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa1511410 among others.) Similar patterns exist for lots of other viruses.

So why don't they try to isolate the virus itself instead of looking for RNA/DNA? Too expensive? Or impossible perhaps?

Re: Researchers Find Herpes Viruses in Brains Marked by Alzheimer's Disease

#72
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, that seems insane to me. Maybe you haven’t ever dived into the possible side effects of anti virals. But maybe you should? The risk/reward ratio of such a drug for cold sores is extremely poor.

Are we thinking of the same drug? Because Valtrex is pretty safe as long as your kidneys are normal and you drink enough water every day. I take 500 mg daily to prevent 5 to 10 (at least!) cold sores per year. My quality of life is so much higher with this drug (imagine not being able to be intimate on like half of all your dates...) For people like me who get cold sores at the drop of a hat (or shaving or even a sha…

You actually buy and take some kind of man-made chemical every single day to avoid getting a cold sore every month or two?

Here is the list of known side-effects here (sorry about the formatting but i guess carriage returns don't translate well):

Along with its needed effects, valacyclovir (the active ingredient contained in Valtrex) may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.

Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur while taking valacyclovir:

More common

Discouragement feeling sad or empty irritability lack of appetite loss of interest or pleasure tiredness trouble concentrating trouble sleeping Rare

Black, tarry stools chest pain chills cough decreased frequency or output of urine fever flu-like symptoms headache lower back or side pain reduced mental alertness shortness of breath yellow eyes or skin Incidence not known

Actions that are out of control agitation anxiety back, leg, or stomach pains bleeding gums blood in urine or stools blurred vision change in consciousness change in mental status changes in behavior, especially in interactions with other people changes in patterns and rhythms of speech dark or bloody urine difficult or labored breathing difficulty speaking difficulty swallowing dizziness drowsiness dry mouth fast, pounding, or irregular heartbeat or pulse feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior feeling that others can hear your thoughts feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there general tiredness and weakness hyperventilation increased thirst itching lightheadedness when getting up from a lying or sitting position light-colored stools loss of consciousness mood or mental changes nausea and vomiting nervousness pale color of skin pinpoint red spots on the skin pounding in the ears puffiness or swelling of the eyelids or around the eyes, face, lips, or tongue redness of the skin restlessness seeing, hearing, or feeling things that are not there seizures severe mood or mental changes shakiness and unsteady walk shakiness in the legs, arms, hands, or feet skin rash slurred speech sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth stiff neck swelling of the face, fingers, or lower legs swollen or painful glands talking, feeling, and acting with excitement tightness in the chest trembling or shaking of the hands or feet trouble in speaking troubled breathing unsteadiness, trembling, or other problems with muscle control or coordination unusual behavior unusual bleeding or bruising unusual tiredness or weakness upper right abdominal pain vomiting weight gain wheezing Some side effects of valacyclovir may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects. Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them:

More common

Body aches or pain cramps difficulty in moving ear congestion heavy bleeding loss of voice muscle aches muscle pain or stiffness nasal congestion pain pain in joints sneezing sore throat stuffy or runny nose Less common

Constipation diarrhea Incidence not known

Blistering, peeling, or loosening of the skin hair loss or thinning of the hair hives or welts increased sensitivity of skin to sunlight red, irritated eyes redness or other discoloration of the skin severe sunburn For Healthcare Professionals Applies to valacyclovir: oral tablet

Gastrointestinal Very common (10% or more): Nausea (up to 16%) Common (1% to 10%): Vomiting, constipation, anorexia, dyspepsia, dry mouth, flatulence Frequency not reported: Tooth disorder Postmarketing reports: Diarrhea[Ref]

Nervous system Very common (10% or more): Headache (up to 16%) Common (1% to 10%): Dizziness, somnolence Frequency not reported: Migraine Postmarketing reports: Seizures, tremors, ataxia, coma, dysarthria, encephalopathy[Ref]

Neurologic/psychiatric events, sometimes severe, have included confusion, agitation, convulsions, hallucinations, and coma have generally been reversible with discontinuation. These events have mostly been seen in patients with renal impairment or in patients receiving higher doses.[Ref]

Psychiatric Neurologic/psychiatric events, sometimes severe, have included confusion, agitation, convulsions, hallucinations, and coma have generally been reversible with discontinuation. These events have mostly been seen in patients with renal impairment or in patients receiving higher doses.[Ref]

Common (1% to 10%): Depression, insomnia Postmarketing reports: Aggressive behavior, agitation, confusion, mania, psychosis, auditory and visual hallucinations[Ref]

Renal Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Increased serum creatinine Frequency not reported: Acute renal failure Postmarketing reports: Renal failure, renal pain[Ref]

Hematologic TTP/HUS, including some fatalities, has been reported during clinical trials in patients with advanced HIV disease and in allogeneic bone marrow transplant and renal transplant recipients, who were receiving 8 g per day.[Ref]

Common (1% to 10%): Decreased neutrophil counts, decreased platelet counts Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Decreased hemoglobin Frequency not reported: Thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura/hemolytic uremic syndrome Postmarketing reports: Thrombocytopenia, aplastic anemia, leukocytoclastic vasculitis[Ref]

Hepatic Common (1% to 10%): Abnormal ALT, elevated alkaline phosphatase, elevated AST Postmarketing reports: Hepatitis[Ref]

Hypersensitivity Postmarketing reports: Acute hypersensitivity reactions including anaphylaxis, angioedema, dyspnea, pruritus, rash, urticaria[Ref]

Dermatologic Common (1% to 10%): Rash Frequency not reported: Acne, pruritus Postmarketing reports: Facial edema, erythema multiforme, photosensitivity, alopecia[Ref]

Cardiovascular Postmarketing reports: Hypertension, tachycardia[Ref]

Ocular Postmarketing reports: Visual abnormalities[Ref]

Respiratory Common (1% to 10%): Nasopharyngitis, upper respiratory tract infection, rhinitis, pharyngitis Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Dyspnea Frequency not reported: Sinusitis, bronchitis[Ref]

Musculoskeletal Common (1% to 10%): Arthralgia Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Back pain[Ref]

Genitourinary Frequency not reported: Dysmenorrhea, urinary tract infection[Ref]

Other Common (1% to 10%): Fatigue, asthenia, fever, chills[Ref]

General The most commonly reported adverse reactions have been headache, nausea, and abdominal pain.[Ref]

References 1. "Product Information. Valtrex (valacyclovir)." Glaxo Wellcome, Research Triangle Park, NC.

2. Cerner Multum, Inc. "UK Summary of Product Characteristics." O 0

3. Cerner Multum, Inc. "Australian Product Information." O 0

Re: Researchers Find Herpes Viruses in Brains Marked by Alzheimer's Disease

#73
post #45

Someone noted (vedtopkar) these are "HHV-6 and HHV-7, which cause roseola". Note that it's an incredibly common infection in babies. There's also another study investigating association between HHV-6 and measles virus serology and brain antibody in autism: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9756729 Reading these studies makes me think an ineffective blood-brain barrier or a brain-specific defence might trigger commo…

> measles virus serology

Potentially topical oddball thing I learned while looking up something on measles. About 1 in 10000 people[1] that contact measles go on to develop subacute sclerosing panencephalitis[2] 6 to 15 years later. While results in brain deterioration and death.

[1] Might be 10X higher.

[2] Obligatory Wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subacute_sclerosing_panencepha...

Re: Researchers Find Herpes Viruses in Brains Marked by Alzheimer's Disease

#74
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be worth noting but it also could very easily be a mistake of identifying an effect as a cause. Once the body is unhealthy all kinds of organisms use that opportunity to stake a claim.

Great point. Healthy people (or any other life form) do not suddenly get sick and die. I think this is a major issue with the entire system of Western medicine. Instead of focussing on healthy diet, lifestyle, exercise, managing stress, the system just wants to identify certain 'germs' and give pills that are supposed to kill those 'germs'... As I understand it, licensed physicians in the US, even after like 12 years…

Your understanding is incorrect in that Nutrition is included in medical education, although you are right in that it isn't much.

There is a saying in medical education that med profs often like to quote: "Half of what we teach you will be wrong in four years, the problem is we don't know which half"

When I was in medical school we were just emerging from the 'fat is bad', towards what I see now as a more 'carbs are bad' (this is a dumb oversimplification but I think sums up the trends). Thumbing through my 2001 copy of 'Harrison's Internal Medicine' there is just a 40 page section on nutrition (out of 2600 pages), and most of that is on various forms of malnourishment (rickets, scurvy, etc...)

The biggest problem with studying what is good nutrition is that it is really hard to control what people eat in a randomized study and there are so many confounders when you try to look at retrospective studies on healthy populations (for example, 7th Day Adventists live longer, is it because of the diet, or because of community, etc...?)

Re: Researchers Find Herpes Viruses in Brains Marked by Alzheimer's Disease

#75
post #65
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more disturbing side effects are rare, but very very serious. I would consider the drug for, say, shingles. But not a chance for a cold sore that’s nothing but a minor nuisance for a few days: https://www.drugs.com/sfx/valtrex-side-effects.html

Virtually any drug looks scary when viewing its side effects in totality like that. The throwaway you're replying to is correct in saying it's a pretty safe drug. > But not a chance for a cold sore that’s nothing but a minor nuisance for a few days Except the virus regularly sheds asymptomatically, and Valacyclovir reduces that risk significantly, thus affording far more protection to one's partners. I otherwise agre…

Exactly! It’s also way more than a “minor nuisance”. Try two weeks of painful, disgusting scabbing, washing your hands constantly (God help you if you self-infect your eye, which is totally a thing), and a decent amount of pain and self-esteem problems. Oh, and forget about using your mouth for pretty much anything besides eating, and even that can be difficult. It’s totallt a quality of life thing. I have so many outbreaks, which can be caused by something as benign as shaving or kissing someone with a beard (and I happen to be into dudes), that there really is no other option. I guess I could spend my life breaking out in gross herpes sores, or... I could take a pill every day like I have been for years with no ill effects, and enjoy the things that everyone else does.

Re: Researchers Find Herpes Viruses in Brains Marked by Alzheimer's Disease

#76
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we thinking of the same drug? Because Valtrex is pretty safe as long as your kidneys are normal and you drink enough water every day. I take 500 mg daily to prevent 5 to 10 (at least!) cold sores per year. My quality of life is so much higher with this drug (imagine not being able to be intimate on like half of all your dates...) For people like me who get cold sores at the drop of a hat (or shaving or even a sha…

You actually buy and take some kind of man-made chemical every single day to avoid getting a cold sore every month or two? Here is the list of known side-effects here (sorry about the formatting but i guess carriage returns don't translate well): Along with its needed effects, valacyclovir (the active ingredient contained in Valtrex) may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, i…

> You actually buy and take some kind of man-made chemical every single day to avoid getting a cold sore every month or two?

Yes? I don’t understand why you’re being so judgemental considering this is between me and my doctor and Valtrex is an incredibly safe drug. Unless you’ve gotten cold sores like I have (try four at a time), I’m really not interested in what you have to say, which seems to just be a regurgitation of side effects, which I will remind you have to be reported from the experimental group REGARDLESS of whether or not they’re actually caused by the medication (because you really have no way of knowing). Furthermore, I don’t actually experience any of those side effects. The main concern is that Valtrex may cause reversible kidney damage, but they do labs every so often and my kidneys are totally fine.

Re: Researchers Find Herpes Viruses in Brains Marked by Alzheimer's Disease

#77
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be worth noting but it also could very easily be a mistake of identifying an effect as a cause. Once the body is unhealthy all kinds of organisms use that opportunity to stake a claim.

Great point. Healthy people (or any other life form) do not suddenly get sick and die. I think this is a major issue with the entire system of Western medicine. Instead of focussing on healthy diet, lifestyle, exercise, managing stress, the system just wants to identify certain 'germs' and give pills that are supposed to kill those 'germs'... As I understand it, licensed physicians in the US, even after like 12 years…

> I think this is a major issue with the entire system of Western medicine

As opposed to magic like Chinese medicine? Animal Spirits? Shaman? What exactly are you comparing to?

Western medicine, for all its serious flaws, has done more to increase life expectancy and save lives than any other system. By many orders of magnitude.

> Healthy people (or any other life form) do not suddenly get sick and die

Demonstrably false, all throughout human history. In some societies people simply reused children's names and didn't mourn the way we do because it was an absolute certainty that at least a few of your children would die young.

People have been suddenly dropping dead from cancer, flu, random infections, et al for all of human history. In my mother's youth every summer random kids came down with polio. They woke up one morning saying "momma I can't move my legs" and that was the end of their dreams.

Animals also drop dead. Why do you think there are so many animal rituals designed to avoid actual combat? Why do you think males of species that fight each other chest pound, yell, stomp, leap, or otherwise put on these displays? Because one injury can mean death. Even a scrape can easily get infected. Such displays are designed to avoid this scenario as often as possible.

> Instead of focussing on healthy diet, lifestyle, exercise, managing stress,

Western medicine does focus on these things. They aren't magic cures any more than pills are... but peddlers of woo and unscientific nonsense often like to pretend diet can cure every disease, so I'd urge caution lest someone think you're one of those people.

Re: Researchers Find Herpes Viruses in Brains Marked by Alzheimer's Disease

#78
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, detectable RNA/DNA does not mean there's virus (virions). An unusual example, but it's common to have Ebola virus RNA in semen (a fluid from another immuno-privileged site) with no detectable virus for months after primary infection. ( https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa1511410 among others.) Similar patterns exist for lots of other viruses.

So why don't they try to isolate the virus itself instead of looking for RNA/DNA? Too expensive? Or impossible perhaps?

Realistically, probably because they're not virologists. Looking for nucleic acids is easy/commonplace. Virus culture, electron microscopy and immunoassays are more specialized techniques.

Re: Researchers Find Herpes Viruses in Brains Marked by Alzheimer's Disease

#79
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You actually buy and take some kind of man-made chemical every single day to avoid getting a cold sore every month or two? Here is the list of known side-effects here (sorry about the formatting but i guess carriage returns don't translate well): Along with its needed effects, valacyclovir (the active ingredient contained in Valtrex) may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, i…

> You actually buy and take some kind of man-made chemical every single day to avoid getting a cold sore every month or two? Yes? I don’t understand why you’re being so judgemental considering this is between me and my doctor and Valtrex is an incredibly safe drug. Unless you’ve gotten cold sores like I have (try four at a time), I’m really not interested in what you have to say, which seems to just be a regurgitatio…

What did I say that you consider "judgemental"?

I've had cold sores since I was a little kid...doesn't everyone get cold sores, you know, when they have a cold and such? Hardly what I would call a disease... Or, let me guess, I caught Herpes from when my gramma or aunt used to kiss me at age 1?

Here's judgemental for you: You are being sold a bill of goods. Cold sores are something everyone gets and there is no need for spending money and risking over 100 possible side effects because of them.

Oh, and it is between you and your doctor, why even bother talking about it in public and trying to promote this drug as something that is a "requirement" for people who are sexually active??? You sound like a big pharma shill, is the truth of the mattter.... oh, and even "incredibly safe drug" too???? Gee, how much they paying you for saying this stuff?

Re: Researchers Find Herpes Viruses in Brains Marked by Alzheimer's Disease

#80
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why don't they try to isolate the virus itself instead of looking for RNA/DNA? Too expensive? Or impossible perhaps?

Realistically, probably because they're not virologists. Looking for nucleic acids is easy/commonplace. Virus culture, electron microscopy and immunoassays are more specialized techniques.

If they aren't virologists, maybe they should leave this kind of research to those that are? The headline says "Researchers Find Herpes Viruses" ...but they didn't (or cannot?) find them? Then, umm...why does it say that?
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