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Amazon employees protest sale of facial recognition tech to law enforcement

thehill.com

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Re: Amazon employees protest sale of facial recognition tech to law enforcement

#11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where do you draw the line on ethical usage? One can put me in a box. The other one can’t.

Say the government doesn't have it. They can just ask/force/coerce/pressure the tech company that does for your data. Or steal it from them.

But it’s more difficult.

Re: Amazon employees protest sale of facial recognition tech to law enforcement

#12

I love the sentiment, but seriously... who did you think you were building this for? It's absurd to believe you were helping anything other than the big brother character from 1984. Who else would this help? Foreign secret services? Maybe you believed it would help stream line the automation process? Thereby making humans irrelevant? I'd love to hear a legitimate - non-big brother implementation of this. And please d…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon employees protest sale of facial recognition tech to law enforcement

#13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where do you draw the line on ethical usage? One can put me in a box. The other one can’t.

Anything goes, so long as they don't put you in a box? That's very permissive of you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Re: Amazon employees protest sale of facial recognition tech to law enforcement

#14
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where do you draw the line on ethical usage? One can put me in a box. The other one can’t.

Say the government doesn't have it. They can just ask/force/coerce/pressure the tech company that does for your data. Or steal it from them.

Indeed, and there are a number of tech companies who have fought back against those things (I can think of notable examples where Apple and Google have pushed back against LE/government pressure/attack), and the ubiquity of suing the government to not disclose information compelled by an NSL suggests they aren't the only ones.

That's not to say that that's a perfect situation, but (if your threat model is the government) a government which has to take data from unwilling companies is weaker than one that need not do so, because they have the capability to collect the data themselves.

Re: Amazon employees protest sale of facial recognition tech to law enforcement

#15
If you don't like what Amazon is building, just wait until all those contracts start going to Raytheon and Northrop! I appreciate the moral quandary these engineers are faced with, but there is something to be said for being a responsible steward of technology. I've met quite a few MIT Ph.D.s who nonchalantly mention their roles as, what sounds like to me like "Program manager for raining fire and destruction on third-world countries systems." Someone is going to write the code, I kind of hope it's done at companies like Amazon where there is some ability to publicly pressure management vs. defense contractors who are largely unaccountable to the masses.

Re: Amazon employees protest sale of facial recognition tech to law enforcement

#16

Previously on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17341742

Is it? That looks like shareholders. Unless these employees are the same shareholders?

It's a bunch of commentary on the subject mostly. I spoke my piece in that thread. So I won't go into it again here.

Long story short, basically what a previous poster said. People spent so much time trying to find out if they could, no one seemed to stop and think about whether they should.

Re: Amazon employees protest sale of facial recognition tech to law enforcement

#17

I love the sentiment, but seriously... who did you think you were building this for? It's absurd to believe you were helping anything other than the big brother character from 1984. Who else would this help? Foreign secret services? Maybe you believed it would help stream line the automation process? Thereby making humans irrelevant? I'd love to hear a legitimate - non-big brother implementation of this. And please d…

Streamlining the criminal / judicial process would be a plus for me. Use webcam feeds to record filesharer, illegal activites passively. Capture known criminals anywhere because you have a real time facial recognition. Cross reference the evidence, and avoid long drawn out court time.

Re: Amazon employees protest sale of facial recognition tech to law enforcement

#18

If you don't like what Amazon is building, just wait until all those contracts start going to Raytheon and Northrop! I appreciate the moral quandary these engineers are faced with, but there is something to be said for being a responsible steward of technology. I've met quite a few MIT Ph.D.s who nonchalantly mention their roles as, what sounds like to me like "Program manager for raining fire and destruction on thir…

This really aligns with my thoughts too. I was sad to see Google pull out, because I know that with the ideology of many of the people there, the whistle is far more likely to be blown when things go too far. Having worked for big defense contractors, that whistle is not likely to get used there.

I get nervous as hell thinking about AI and ML in the hands of governments, but it's gonna happen anyway. I'd rather it be Google than Northrop.

Re: Amazon employees protest sale of facial recognition tech to law enforcement

#19

I love the sentiment, but seriously... who did you think you were building this for? It's absurd to believe you were helping anything other than the big brother character from 1984. Who else would this help? Foreign secret services? Maybe you believed it would help stream line the automation process? Thereby making humans irrelevant? I'd love to hear a legitimate - non-big brother implementation of this. And please d…

Streamlining the criminal / judicial process would be a plus for me. Use webcam feeds to record filesharer, illegal activites passively. Capture known criminals anywhere because you have a real time facial recognition. Cross reference the evidence, and avoid long drawn out court time.

If anything this will make court time longer - you better believe lawyers are going to challenge every aspect of the face recognition software and it's validity in courtroom identification

Re: Amazon employees protest sale of facial recognition tech to law enforcement

#20

If you don't like what Amazon is building, just wait until all those contracts start going to Raytheon and Northrop! I appreciate the moral quandary these engineers are faced with, but there is something to be said for being a responsible steward of technology. I've met quite a few MIT Ph.D.s who nonchalantly mention their roles as, what sounds like to me like "Program manager for raining fire and destruction on thir…

The pressure at Amazon, Google, etc. will be to not provide those tools to law-enforcement or government entities, though, which means that the contracts will wind up at defense contractors who don't operate with the same ethical beliefs. It's a Catch-22.

Ethical use doesn't matter once the government has their hands on it - government doesn't have ethics, it has politics.

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