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China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

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Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#181
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that a problem that could be solved with law enforcement and cleaners like what developed countries do? That still seems to be cheaper than glass bottles.

Cheaper is not the measure of everything. Glass bottles, returned and re-used are much better for the environment than plastic bottles.

Also, and this is only anecdata, drinks in glass bottles seem to taste so much better for some reason.

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, this probably wouldn't work. Most plastic waste does not come from rich countries with decent waste infrastructure. It comes from shipping and fishing and industrial vessels who dump their garbage into the ocean, and developing countries who dispose of all of their waste by throwing it into a river or the ocean to be washed away. You can't tax them because they are not in your country. You would have t…

I don't know why you're being down voted. China, India and Africa are responsible for 90% of the waste in the ocean. All of them are smaller consumers of it than the US. ( https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/891361/Plastic-waste-po... ) I can't stand these various doomsday scenario stories. Yes, it's certainly wasteful to have single use plastic products. Consumers like them, though, and they're sometimes the only w…

> For example, washing and steam cleaning glass to sterilize it uses more energy than just making a plastic bottle.

OK but washing and cleaning is the whole consumer life cycle of glass. How does it compare to both making and "recycling" the plastic bottle?

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#184
post #183

Why not just rocket it to space? Sounds like a good business to be in for SpaceX.

Seriously? I’m going to have to follow the rules and charitably assume that you’re serious.

Rocket fuel is expensive, the process of launching and recovering the vehicle is expensive, and every kg lifted is incredibly expensive. You would also need to launch it somewhere, or you’d just be launching garbage into a decaying orbit. You might as well dispose of garbage by burning it on a pile of diamonds.

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#185
post #181
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheaper is not the measure of everything. Glass bottles, returned and re-used are much better for the environment than plastic bottles.

Also, and this is only anecdata, drinks in glass bottles seem to taste so much better for some reason.

more anecdata - I have the same experience, I cannot tell if it is in my head [0] or there is actually a difference

[0] for example some people claim food tastes different based on weight of their utensils etc... It is hard for me to accept my brain is not tricking me when drinks in glass taste better than can/plastic of the same drink

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#186

I am not an expert but I am a PhD chemical engineer and I have though about this issue for years and years. My 0.02... Short term --------------- a) give houses smaller trash cans and charge a lot for bigger trash cans. Town I live in already does this... at first I was like "wtf with this tiny trash can... I can throw away like one, two bags of trash tops per week"... well, now my household of 4 averages one bag of…

> give houses smaller trash cans and charge a lot for bigger trash cans. And then find garbage illegaly dumped in forests. > d)We need packaging laws and taxes that address waste caused by excessive/unnecessary packaging... particularly for commercial/industrial use. This. Taxes and import duties should penalise overuse of hardly recyclable products and packages.

It is actually amazing how something as simple as a smaller trash can can positively influence behavior.

But as a possible solution: No need for them to go to the forest... just to the local trash accumulation facility and dump it there for free or call for curb side pickup of extra trash.

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#187
post #179
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should we go back to glass bottles and paper bags? If you put a price (read: tax) on plastic, I'm sure many folks would jump at the opportunity of replacing plastic-heavy stuff with no/minimal plastic options possibly using glass or paper (or metal where things are disposable that shouldn't be). Thing is, plastic has a subsidized price right now due to petroleum supply chain being subsidized - plastic is a byproduc…

Here in Colombia the plastic bags in stores cost some (very little) money now. Suddenly, people discover that are not as necessary! Now, people take stuff with their own hands (before EVERYTHING was put in a plastic bag, event single units that are already in plastic bags!) or use bags made of fabrics or just get one with them...

I'm in cambridge MA, We have the same thing.

You need to pay 10 cents for a bag, period (it goes to the city). While slightly annoying at first, you quickly adapt. (I haven't bought a bag yet, its the principal. It also turns the question "do you need a bag" in a hostile one).

You totally get used to it.

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#188
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No the store doesn't need a supply chain. The distributor who deliver new, filled bottles can take the empty ones back. Which is quite efficient. That's how it works in Quebec for instance.

The distributor will only take the empty ones that resemble the type he delivers => this is a supply chain. That’s why you can’t just return any type of reusable bottles at a store, but just the ones it is also selling.

[deleted]

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, this probably wouldn't work. Most plastic waste does not come from rich countries with decent waste infrastructure. It comes from shipping and fishing and industrial vessels who dump their garbage into the ocean, and developing countries who dispose of all of their waste by throwing it into a river or the ocean to be washed away. You can't tax them because they are not in your country. You would have t…

I don't know why you're being down voted. China, India and Africa are responsible for 90% of the waste in the ocean. All of them are smaller consumers of it than the US. ( https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/891361/Plastic-waste-po... ) I can't stand these various doomsday scenario stories. Yes, it's certainly wasteful to have single use plastic products. Consumers like them, though, and they're sometimes the only w…

Did you read the original article? Where do you think a lot of the waste from China comes from (hint - we send it there). A lot of the plastic 'recyclable' waste we ship there can't actually be recycled (clam shell containers, contaminated plastic), and ends up as part of the waste stream.

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#190
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't expect people to transport their recycling Why on earth not? The majority used to haul their own garbage to the town dump a just few decades ago (and some still do in smaller towns). Ubiquity of curbside pickup is relatively new -- doubly so for recycling. And recyclables are a heck of a lot more pleasant to carry in the car than rotting kitchen scraps.

And if you don't have a car? Or are not strong enough to carry lots of trash? Or the dump is far enough away to make transporting recycling counterproductive?

> And if you don't have a car?

My impression has been that you can't live in the US without a car anyway. So this won't be any new requirements.

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