Live data from Hacker News

China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

bloomberg.com

161–170 of 213 posts

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#161
post #27

This is actually great news. Western people will have to get innovate about avoiding garbage, plastic in particular. Oceans will intake less waste (Yes, I’m optimistic about this one)

That would be an awesome outcome. I picture a more likely one is that they will incinerate a lot more. I would like to be incorrect about that.

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#162
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. In 2004, Germany introduced a 25 cent deposit on single-use plastic bottles [1] for types of beverages where single-use bottles were much more common than reusable bottles. The intention was like you describe: to encourage consumers and manufacturers to prefer reusable bottles. However, the opposite happened. In the first few months after the law came into power, each retailer would only take back bo…

No the store doesn't need a supply chain. The distributor who deliver new, filled bottles can take the empty ones back. Which is quite efficient. That's how it works in Quebec for instance.

The distributor will only take the empty ones that resemble the type he delivers => this is a supply chain.

That’s why you can’t just return any type of reusable bottles at a store, but just the ones it is also selling.

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one truck load, how much sand can you carry per volume, vs. old glass bottles? For the latter, aren't you mostly transporting air? You don't want to BREAK the glass bottles, since they still need to be sorted, and cleaned.

Do you know what you are talking about? I am far from an expert, but here in germany glas gets recycled in 3 bins, brown, green, white - and get usually smashed by people throwing those bottles in. So not much air. And cleaned they still can get (and should)

Germany is quite ahead of the curve when it comes to recycling.

Here in Boulder, CO, USA, recycling goes only into one bin. It then needs to get sorted at the recycling center. We're told not to smash bottles. Glass has to first be sorted by color.

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one truck load, how much sand can you carry per volume, vs. old glass bottles? For the latter, aren't you mostly transporting air? You don't want to BREAK the glass bottles, since they still need to be sorted, and cleaned.

Do you know what you are talking about? I am far from an expert, but here in germany glas gets recycled in 3 bins, brown, green, white - and get usually smashed by people throwing those bottles in. So not much air. And cleaned they still can get (and should)

Also we have nothing at all like the Pfand system. I pay for the privilege to have recycling taken away, not the other way around. What Germany has is awesome.

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#165
So what is the likelyhood that rich countries - not having the recycling capacity to deal properly with their own waste - find some other, much poorer countries (other than the ones mentioned) to use as their garbage dump?

Seems likely to me. Is this already happening?

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#167
post #166

May sound silly but could we send it into space instead of burying it? Surely it could be sent on a trajectory to burn up at the sun or another planet’s atmosphere. I guess the obvious issue is cost, are there others?

It's counterintuitively hard to send something into the sun. You have to cancel out all of Earth's velocity.

http://www.astronomy.com/news/2016/07/heres-why-we-cant-just...

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glass is a terrible material in a recycling sense, as it's weight makes transport costly and wasteful (fuel). The raw material is essentially sand (silica) which we're not going to run out of, soon. Burying it in a landfill won't make a worst landfill - it's essentially inert. It's literally better to NOT recycle glass than to recycle it. Reuse it.

Depending on which kind is used to make glass, we actually are running out of sand. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/29/the-world-is-r... http://www.businessinsider.com/world-running-out-sand-resour...

From the first article, "In some applications, natural aggregate can be replaced by or supplemented with recycled materials, but the possibilities are limited. "

It doesn't go on to why that is, but the conclusion is that recyclable glass won't work(?).

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#169

Seems like Northern Africa would be a pretty logical place for disposing waste. Lots of unused desert land very close to the sea for easy access by barge.

Sort of historical note. Depending on how such a program is formed, you could inadvertently spawn e.g. Somali piracy out of illegal dumping. So while the idea could work, it could also be implemented in such a way to go horribly, horribly wrong.

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#170
post #119
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bioplastics / biodegradable plastics are not a panacea: https://www.explainthatstuff.com/bioplastics.html

> Unfortunately, not all bioplastics compost easily or completely and some leave toxic residues or plastic fragments behind. Some will break down only at high temperatures in industrial-scale, municipal composters or digesters, or in biologically active landfills (also called bioreactor landfills), not on ordinary home compost heaps or in conventional landfills. This is not that big a problem. The solution to it is m…

I take it you didn't read the link. The problems with "biodegradable" is that often times it's not 100% and will result in particulate and toxins.

If someone is composting they'd prefer not have toxins in there - goal is to grow stuff using the compost. So how do you get rid of this stuff cleanly?

Post reply on HN