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Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

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Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people forget that the only browser used by most everyone was IE and that was stagnant and smelly as they come. Firefox nudged the web forward when it was introduced, and made quite a splash on its own by capturing about a fourth to a third of usage from IE, but a small company can't fend itself from Microsoft. It took Google and Chrome, later, to knock IE and Microsoft into its place with its big push forwa…

Mozilla too gets to write certain bits. WebAssembly is all Mozilla. I guess Google has more resources to invest in Chrome is the bigger difference.

WebAssembly started at Mozilla, but is very much not controlled by Mozilla today. It's a W3C Community group: https://webassembly.org/community/contributing/

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#632

Most of the comments here are about using or not using Firefox, depending on it's features as compared to primarily Chrome. However, for me, it is not about being better or having more features at all - it is because I like Firefox and want to support Mozilla and believe that Google should not control the web. It is somewhat similar to the free software vs. open source debate - one should use free software not becaus…

That's been my experience/preference as well. In fact I have been very taken aback by all the "Firefox is back" and "time to try Firefox again" headlines. I guess I didn't realize what sort of exodus occurred when chrome came out. But honestly, I never ran into performance issues with Firefox over the years and various versions, including the overhaul with Firefox 3. I typically have 2-8 tabs open (hasn't changed muc…

>* I guess I didn't realize what sort of exodus occurred when chrome came out.*

It wasn't really a mass exodus, but a gradual wax & wane over time (with more moves FF->C over the long term than C->FF).

In development fields the count is complicated by people who regularly use both, but prefer one.

> I typically have 2-8 tabs open

I tend to have many open[1], over several windows on different desktops. I use open tabs more than I use bookmarks! Every once in a while I go through the open tabs and close those I've not touched in a while that I don;t expect to touch any time soon (obviously the need to have it open has passed). I currently use Chrome more then FF, and here The Great Suspender[1] is a godsend for saving RAM (and to a lesser extent CPU time) Chrome would otherwise consume.

[1] TGS lists my current use on this machine as "22 windows, 148 tabs"

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#633
post #184
post #6

I've switched to Firefox on most of my devices. And there is only one thing which I don't like — high CPU usage compared to chrome. It makes my old MacBook air very noisy because of the fan spinning. When I use chrome it's completely silent.

Same experience here on a MBP. Tried to switch a couple months ago and the fans run in overdrive.

It’s a known issue that pops up in every FF thread. But it’s hopeless. Everytime it pops up some people subscribe to the issue and thats it.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1407536

Honestly, I’ve given up on Firefox.

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#634

I never really "switched" to any particular browser, I use Safari/Vivaldi/Firefox concurrently, but have noticed how much better Firefox has gotten recently, after years of painful decline (Speed, and resource hogging being my biggest peeves). The only major thing I wish it did better is if it conserved battery power as well as Safari does. If I want to maximize my laptop's battery life I don't really have a choice o…

Yeah, they know about this but it’s ignored:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1407536

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#635

Most of the comments here are about using or not using Firefox, depending on it's features as compared to primarily Chrome. However, for me, it is not about being better or having more features at all - it is because I like Firefox and want to support Mozilla and believe that Google should not control the web. It is somewhat similar to the free software vs. open source debate - one should use free software not becaus…

That's been my experience/preference as well. In fact I have been very taken aback by all the "Firefox is back" and "time to try Firefox again" headlines. I guess I didn't realize what sort of exodus occurred when chrome came out. But honestly, I never ran into performance issues with Firefox over the years and various versions, including the overhaul with Firefox 3. I typically have 2-8 tabs open (hasn't changed muc…

I typically have 25-250 tabs open at a time, and also never left Firefox. Though maybe this is the other end of the spectrum because managing this number of tabs in Chrome is impossible.

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is not working? I have been using google flights to book trips for months without issues now. The only google services I've had some trouble with firefox are hangouts, and even that is fixed.

Try it on Android, where Google controls more of the market, and has less incentive for interop. You get a door slammed in your face: https://twitter.com/andrewhobden/status/1007668509826928640 Great response from Alex Russell, but it's clear that the sentiments of the Chrome team aren't translating into policy elsewhere in Google, or we wouldn't be dealing with something like this every few months.

Oh wow, I never noticed this before, this must be a recent thing...Thanks!

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#637
post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only is it still a thing, Google itself is a major culprit of it. Seems like every new experiment they release is “best viewed” in — or worse, “requires” — Google Chrome.

Well yeah, if it's an experiment that demonstrates a feature that Firefox doesn't support then of course it will be best viewed in Chrome. Experiments shouldn't count here.

As soon as "experiment" stops meaning "soft launch" we can stop counting them.

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's been my experience/preference as well. In fact I have been very taken aback by all the "Firefox is back" and "time to try Firefox again" headlines. I guess I didn't realize what sort of exodus occurred when chrome came out. But honestly, I never ran into performance issues with Firefox over the years and various versions, including the overhaul with Firefox 3. I typically have 2-8 tabs open (hasn't changed muc…

>* I guess I didn't realize what sort of exodus occurred when chrome came out.* It wasn't really a mass exodus, but a gradual wax & wane over time (with more moves FF->C over the long term than C->FF). In development fields the count is complicated by people who regularly use both, but prefer one. > I typically have 2-8 tabs open I tend to have many open[1], over several windows on different desktops. I use open tabs…

Thank you for link to TGS, I have similar browsing patterns, and I do notice chrome closing in on 5gb of RAM, slowing down alot of other stuff. Hopefully this will help :)

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#639

I haven't seen anyone mention this, but Firefox is my "daily driver" for almost all browsing, and is also locked down with uMatrix, uBlock Origin, DecentralEyes and Ghostery (though I could probably drop Ghostery without missing it). Chrome has uBlock Origin and a few other things but interferes with pages less. I keep a set of pages for some specific web apps (e.g. GMail, Google Calendar, task management, etc.) open…

Thanks for pointing me towards "Dark Background and Light Text". Having a dark background and light text is something that's very important to me.

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's been my experience/preference as well. In fact I have been very taken aback by all the "Firefox is back" and "time to try Firefox again" headlines. I guess I didn't realize what sort of exodus occurred when chrome came out. But honestly, I never ran into performance issues with Firefox over the years and various versions, including the overhaul with Firefox 3. I typically have 2-8 tabs open (hasn't changed muc…

> I have been very taken aback by all the "Firefox is back" and "time to try Firefox again" headlines. I think this is because there is a marketing campaign for firefox at the moment. When it was front page reddit, the comments were overtly positive and any pro-chrome comments were downvoted to oblivion. Thinking there is a massive marketing campaign and thats why we are seeing it.

They assumed that removing their last distinctions from chrome - the extensions that had become integral parts of the workflows of millions for up to a dozen years, and the lack of tab processes - would somehow get people to switch from chrome instead of to chrome in resentment. This was where the organization had fixed all of their hopes - once they got rid of extensions and got chrome's primary marked feature (on release), then they would stop hemorrhaging users, because now people could choose to have a browser that was almost exactly like chrome, just a little bit off, and a little bit slow on google-owned sites, but without google, and run by a non-profit.

Since this had no effect, except causing an instant loss of a lot of users (one that hasn't been completely felt yet due to esr), and a slight bump in chrome's user numbers, there's no resort other than advertise heavily the benefits of not using google's browser, without mentioning google negatively because they generally rely on google for funding. So just weird platitudes about "freer people web standard access foundation" or something. Or talk about start-up times that no one cares about, and which don't make them distinctive from chrome.

The immediate problem is the vast majority of people who are sympathetic to that branding were already firefox users, and at some point were turned off because firefox killed some plugin or other or it just stopped being updated, or because of some UI change which are now explicitly not mitigatable in quantum. The way firefox responded to those complaints (which is not materially, even once; when a meeting of firefox management has determined something is going to be done, it is going to be done, and exactly in that way) has assured that target audience that development by a non-profit is no more amenable to consumer desires than development by the largest, most predatory companies in the US. At least Microsoft and Google are big enough that user complaints catch fire in the mainstream media, and they're forced to respond to a critical audience. If firefox decides that they're going to take out the back button, because "in a modern internet, users shouldn't be moving backwards", you're just going to find a closed WONTFIX bug with 400 angry comments from users on it, and a few comments from Mozilla explaining how their user testing showed that people don't want a back button, the bug tracker isn't for general complaints, that the tone of the thread was very negative and regrettable, and that the thread was being closed for further comments.

The real problem is that Firefox has 10x as many employees as it needs, and is just another corporate bureaucracy collapsing under its own weight. Should have been slim and user-focused, and instead of rhetoric about a "free people web standard internet brings people together", central and visible in every conflict regarding the internet and its architecture, and the distribution of knowledge in general. It used to be almost that, but I think the fight over h264 broke it.

Now, the only reason it's alive is to keep the forces of antitrust from google's door.

Their employees, whether intentionally or inadvertantly, also brigade message boards.

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