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Keybase Exploding Messages

keybase.io

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Re: Keybase Exploding Messages

#111

Post by otachack »

joewee wrote: post #53
malgorithms wrote: post #38

Author here. I'm seeing the same comment in 4 different places on here, worded with various amounts of hostility. I now wish I had addressed this in the FAQ on the post. There's the suggestion that an exploding feature is worthless, given your partner can just take a screenshot or video of what you sent. This suggestion is missing (1) that your relationship with a partner is disproportionately okay at the time you se…

The most important purpose of these exploding message capabilities is destruction of data that doesn’t need to be archived. The primary threat is compromise of a device. Keybase allows you to revoke keys but that assumes you are aware that the device has been compromised. Which is already too late for sensitive messages. The average user doesn’t understand data persistence, or secure destruction of data. Manafort is…

Because WhatsApp is done with the endeavor. The founders would have wanted this kind of feature but they've since parted ways after selling out to FB, probably because FB isn't interest in such features and privacy.

Re: Keybase Exploding Messages

#112

Post by landhar »

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #104
joewee wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most important purpose of these exploding message capabilities is destruction of data that doesn’t need to be archived. The primary threat is compromise of a device. Keybase allows you to revoke keys but that assumes you are aware that the device has been compromised. Which is already too late for sensitive messages. The average user doesn’t understand data persistence, or secure destruction of data. Manafort is…

As a user of messaging services, I nearly never want to delete a message. I want to be able to use my digital memory extension (phone) to store messages so that I can easily recall my conversations. Rarely do I want to delete a message. In fact, I would only want to delete it if it's sensitive: I rarely message such sensitive things. Most people fall into this camp. It's rare for someone to never want any message to…

Sure, as a recipient I want to keep a history of everything. But as a sender, I might want sometimes to send a message with some guarantees that it will self destruct after a period of time, mission impossible style.

Re: Keybase Exploding Messages

#113

Post by ejholmes »

How does this differ from the existing "Message deletion/retention" feature that was present before this? Did the existing feature delete messages, but not keys? Is the old feature and the new feature combined, or are they still separate?

Re: Keybase Exploding Messages

#115

Post by giffarage »

prepend wrote: post #102
jdoliner wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what people don't seem to get, exploding messages aren't an airtight solution to the risks of sharing sensitive information with someone. You're always taking a risk when you do that. Exploding messages change the default way that sensitive information is handled, and changing the default can have a profound impact, for all the reasons you lay out.

My issue is with the way they are marketed. I would be cool with just a “don’t retain” flag that does just that. But making a big deal about “exploding” is dangerously incorrect that many users will make incorrect assumptions. I’m not worried about screenshots, I’m worried about my plugin that archvives all text inbound to me that then requires me to respond to subpeona, etc. From a security standpoint, this feature…

I don’t see your point. If you archive all inbound text, this feature is clearly not for you. This is like saying a door lock isn’t useful for anyone because you keep your window open.

Re: Keybase Exploding Messages

#116

Post by rmshea »

geofft wrote: post #64
malgorithms wrote: post #38

Author here. I'm seeing the same comment in 4 different places on here, worded with various amounts of hostility. I now wish I had addressed this in the FAQ on the post. There's the suggestion that an exploding feature is worthless, given your partner can just take a screenshot or video of what you sent. This suggestion is missing (1) that your relationship with a partner is disproportionately okay at the time you se…

> SnapChat, as far as I know, has none of the cryptographic implementation of Keybase. And yet it has likely protected hundreds of thousands of kids from severe bullying. Is this true? (Asking with no implication of criticism or being a leading question - I just genuinely don't know the answer) I can believe both that these teens were going to sext each other anyway and Snapchat is keeping them safer, or that they we…

Sexting on Snapchat is rampant in high school today (I'm a current high school student). The self-destruction principle has allowed for people to feel comfortable about sending explicit photos to eachother -- in relationships, it's almost ubiquitous.

That isn't saying that Snapchat has removed the potential of spreading explicit content. As someone mentioned in another comment, screenshotting the snap circumvents the system. It's also just as easy to take a photo of the screen with another device -- both an untraceable and permanent record of the photo.

As a whole, Snapchat has had a net positive effect for people my age. I can attest that teenagers make unwise decisions now and again, and Snapchat has helped in that those rash decisions are less likely to bite us in the future. While I don't have the data to back up the claim that hundreds of thousands of kids have been protected due to Snapchat's impermanence, I certainly wouldn't be surprised if it was true. It's the most popular social network in my demographic for a reason -- it oozes the ephemeral teenage spirit.

Re: Keybase Exploding Messages

#118

Post by beisner »

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #104
joewee wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most important purpose of these exploding message capabilities is destruction of data that doesn’t need to be archived. The primary threat is compromise of a device. Keybase allows you to revoke keys but that assumes you are aware that the device has been compromised. Which is already too late for sensitive messages. The average user doesn’t understand data persistence, or secure destruction of data. Manafort is…

As a user of messaging services, I nearly never want to delete a message. I want to be able to use my digital memory extension (phone) to store messages so that I can easily recall my conversations. Rarely do I want to delete a message. In fact, I would only want to delete it if it's sensitive: I rarely message such sensitive things. Most people fall into this camp. It's rare for someone to never want any message to…

Ephemerality is liberating. A large portion of social media use is not about exchanging information (which would be useful to persist) but about socializing. Just as you probably wouldn’t feel comfortable if every conversation you had with your friends while hanging out were recorded, a lot of users (particularly young users) feel more comfortable expressing themselves when they know with reasonable certainty that their communications are not being recorded online. Its often for sharing moments and making jokes and hanging out, not for conveying actionable information.

Re: Keybase Exploding Messages

#119

Post by skorbenko »

byproxy wrote: post #106
malcolmgreaves wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user of messaging services, I nearly never want to delete a message. I want to be able to use my digital memory extension (phone) to store messages so that I can easily recall my conversations. Rarely do I want to delete a message. In fact, I would only want to delete it if it's sensitive: I rarely message such sensitive things. Most people fall into this camp. It's rare for someone to never want any message to…

Hell, I wish messaging services made conversation much more searchable. I hate having to scroll and scroll to find some past conversation topic that maybe had interesting thoughts/links/shared media.

As far as I know, Slack and Telegram are currently the two leaders in the “searchable” area of messaging apps.

Re: Keybase Exploding Messages

#120

Post by aidanwilson »

code_duck wrote: post #84
malgorithms wrote: post #38

Author here. I'm seeing the same comment in 4 different places on here, worded with various amounts of hostility. I now wish I had addressed this in the FAQ on the post. There's the suggestion that an exploding feature is worthless, given your partner can just take a screenshot or video of what you sent. This suggestion is missing (1) that your relationship with a partner is disproportionately okay at the time you se…

I would be hesitant to trust a controversial screenshot of text because I know that can be faked so easily. A lot of people don't have that awareness, though.

Another feature of Keybase's exploding messages is that when they expire, the text is replaced by the md5sum of the message. So a faked screenshot can (potentially; I haven't verified this) be proven to be faked by appealing to the md5sum in its place, crucially, without needing to reveal the contents of the original message.
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