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Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

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Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#191

Post by dangcansmyd »

jadedhacker wrote: post #38
deegles wrote: post #3

> “Our current engagement with ICE is focused on moving legacy infrastructure such as mail, calendar, messaging and document management to the cloud using Azure.” I don’t understand why this makes it any better. I’m sure there’s a lot of “messaging and document management” needed to run those detainment centers. And besides, what’s going to happen in the future when they do ask to use Cognitive Services in their miss…

Child concentration camps run a lot smoother on Office 365, now on Azure! EDIT: Anyone that collaborates with ICE from this point forward is complicit. In a just world, collaborators, ICE officers, and high officials would be tried in the International Criminal Court. Following orders or making money was not an acceptable defensible at Nuremberg, nor will it be in the coming future when the US loses enough internatio…

The political elites are using your emotions to get power. Here: see this fake photo https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/8sdb23/telemund...

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#192

Post by cr1895 »

refoundglory wrote: post #167
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>no laws https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2016/07/06/1... >mandating this horror Yes, instead when the parents are arrested for breaking our laws, the children should also be placed in jail. Hey, if we have such horrors, maybe that would seem like a deterrent to illegal border crossing? IDK. I think it’s pretty funny that some people want to die on this hill while talking about how wonderful other coun…

Flores does not mandate that a) every arrival be prosecuted instead of just deported (or even any arrival) b) Trump end community detention programs for immigrant families, which were very successful and far cheaper than prison under Obama So no, there are no laws mandating this. People like you are choosing to do it because they think it will deter people from arriving here. That's not a legal mandate, it's a moral…

>People like you are choosing to do it because they think it will deter people from arriving here.

Immoral and repugnant as it is, it does appear to be working this way.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/world/americas/mexico-fam...

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#193

Post by stephengillie »

jgaa wrote: post #45

Governments will always do evil. Not to everyone, all of the time - but they are by nature evil. When I wrote the War FTP Daemon in 1996, as freeware, this became a problem to me. I did want to give away my work for free, but I did not want any government agency to abuse it. So I came up with a solution - a GPL license with an additional clause - that the government - any government - could not use it for any purpose…

Why do you trust people in business more than people in government?

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#194

Post by jgaa »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #175
jgaa wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I think both governments and corporations can be a good thing - if they behave ethically and the people all the way from the top to the ones carrying out policies - are accountable for their actions. Example: If a border-patrol officer chose to follow orders and take an infant from her mother - because it's policy, he should be liable to criminal prosecution for breaking domestic and international law. Like any s…

> I think both governments and corporations can be a good thing > Governments will always do evil. > they are by nature evil. Please either make up your mind or use less misleading language in the future. You made a strong, controversial assertion, which then turned out to be a pretty mundane belief upon challenge.

Well, I think the wrong people will search power. Always. That means that governments, by nature, will be evil. They will always to some degree do evil.

However, if the people abusing their powers (by evil intent, neglect or pure stupidity) are held accountable, and removed, may be the governments can become something I can live with, even mostly good.

Today, I think the balance is very much that the governments are on the dark side. Some more than others (yes China - I'm looking at you), but noone that I know well inspires any good feelings. I would not work for any of them. Even paying taxes feels deeply immoral.

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#195

Post by Erwin »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #65
vinhboy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is very guilty as of this. The insistence that HN should never discuss politics is morality reprehensible. The people in this community creates many tools and products that could help or hurt a lot of people. As such, we should readily engage in political discussion so that we fully understand the impact we have.

The reason HN tries to avoid discussing politics is because it's not suited for productive political discussions, so everything would be drowned in noise. I honestly don't know of any place on the Internt suited for a productive political discussion. I'd join such a space in a heartbeat. Given how politics is both complicated and universally triggers all the bugs in human minds, such a place would have to both struct…

In addition to the CMV reddit, this is also a good one: https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/

Heavy moderation is the key here.

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#196

Post by wilsonnb2 »

jgaa wrote: post #45

Governments will always do evil. Not to everyone, all of the time - but they are by nature evil. When I wrote the War FTP Daemon in 1996, as freeware, this became a problem to me. I did want to give away my work for free, but I did not want any government agency to abuse it. So I came up with a solution - a GPL license with an additional clause - that the government - any government - could not use it for any purpose…

Governments are not evil by their nature. They are amoral, meaning they lack a moral sense, not immoral, meaning they are evil.

The same is true of companies and any other large group of people.

Amoral entities do things that moral entities consider evil, but it's because they have no moral sense, not because they are actively immoral.

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#197

Post by wilsonnb2 »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #158
gameswithgo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

trump/sessions specifically mandated this policy.

[flagged]

For the record, "Russia" did stick. We still get news about the special counsel's investigation on a regular basis. We have plenty of evidence of people in the Trump campaign meeting with Russians and lying about it. I believe the special counsel's investigation is supposed to finish up some time this summer, so we will probably be hearing more about it in the near future.

The only reason it seems like it didn't stick is because congressional Republicans and the conservative media benefit protecting Trump.

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#198

Post by wilsonnb2 »

firic wrote: post #49
macspoofing wrote: post #12

>part of a backlash against the agency’s policy of separating children from their families at the U.S. border. Is that a policy that ICE can simply drop?

Not without the senate changing a ruling that has been in effect since before Trump or Trump choosing not to enforce a law that he is required to enforce.

Trump is not required to enforce it. He could exercise the same discretion that Obama exercised, but he instead chose to implement a zero tolerance policy.

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#199

Post by wilsonnb2 »

madaxe_again wrote: post #57
ggg9990 wrote: post #48

I just don't think we're tracking towards a healthy world where your email vendor pulls the plug on your contract because of your activities. I don't think any business should be allowed to deny their offering to any paying customer. Edit: Does that mean I have to sell lumber to the KKK even though they will likely burn a cross with it? Yes, unless they explicitly say they're going to. Leave those policing problems t…

This cuts both ways, and a precedent has already been set, recently, with the wedding cake debacle. If a business can refuse service due to soneone’s gender or sexual orientation (I.e. it conflicts with the business owner’s sense of morality), why should a business not be able to refuse because they morally object to their client using their product or services to harm human beings? Honestly, I don’t see the distinct…

The Supreme Court case that you're speaking of set no precedent that a business can refuse service due to gender or sexual orientation.

They ruled that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission violated the Free Exercise clause of the first amendment by not properly respecting Jack Phillips' religious beliefs during their hearings on the matter.

That's why everyone was saying that it was a "narrow" ruling - they did not rule on the "wide" question, which was about businesses discriminating based on sexual orientation.

The ruling can be read here [1]. It's pretty short and easy to read, if you want to know more about the case.

[1] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-111_j4el.pdf

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#200

Post by sctb »

ThbTs4wbXC9Qjv wrote: post #58

Fire every single one of those Microsoft employees. People in ICE protect me, mine, and our way of life with their lives every day of the week. I'm not going to flippantly say fuck those people because the politics of the day are making a mockery of a law that was duly imposed and enforced by both parties spanning multiple administrations because it's the fashionable political protest fad of the day. Protest the lead…

We just said we'd ban you if you ranted like this again, and you did it again, so we've banned you.
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