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European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

bbc.com

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Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#71

Post by sebst »

sampo wrote: post #56
hesk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law was basically made at the publisher’s behest to get Google to pay them. So far, it has spectularly backfired. In Germany, Google started to delist news sites from their index. After traffic dropped, the publishers gave Google a license to link freely. Law defeated. In Spain, they went a bit further and wrote into the law that Google had to list news sites in their index. So Google News shut down in Spain. Law…

So Google gets licenses to link to new sites for free, but smaller companies and private people's website cannot link to news sites?

Yes. Exactly.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#72

Post by dekrg »

hesk wrote: post #34
josteink wrote: post #10

This is what happens when those in control don't understand, know or care about the things they regulate. So I guess this is bad. --goes and reads article-- > Article 11, requiring online platforms to pay publishers a fee if they link to their news content, was also approved. What the fucking FUCK? Pay to send companies actual traffic? Pay to be allowed to use the basic building-block of the world wide web on the wor…

The law was basically made at the publisher’s behest to get Google to pay them. So far, it has spectularly backfired. In Germany, Google started to delist news sites from their index. After traffic dropped, the publishers gave Google a license to link freely. Law defeated. In Spain, they went a bit further and wrote into the law that Google had to list news sites in their index. So Google News shut down in Spain. Law…

Laws don't work like that. It you think any law was defeated you very mistaken about how laws and government bureaucracy works.

The law still applies and all that happened is that Google gets a free license and everyone who is not Google has to pay licensing fees.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#73

Post by firic »

I dislike this bill as much as other HNers but writing "Disastrous" in the title makes this look more like an option piece rather than a news piece. How hard is it to ask for news to report facts and for me to decide if the facts are disastrous or not?

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#74

Post by CloudNetworking »

v_lisivka wrote: post #41
visarga wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote a Romanian news concentrator as a hobby project, guess I will have to put it down now. They were 99% bullshit anyway - clickbait and fake news. That's what they are protecting.

Why not just use URL shortener outside of EU?

Would you fund the lawsuits they'll get?

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#75

Post by CloudNetworking »

sampo wrote: post #15
specializeded wrote: post #5

IIRC, EU citizens helped defeat ACTA by taking to the streets and influencing parliament. Would I be mistaken in believing it can be done again, even without the additional anti-US/trade treaty attitudes that helped against ACTA?

European newspapers are left-leaning, so they were happy to write pieces criticizing free trade treaties. But now with the proposed link tax in Article 11, the newspapers pretty much support the proposed new copyright law. Without old media, it might be difficult to reach and inform a critical mass of people for demonstrations to happen.

"left-leaning". Hehe.

Goes to show how much the left-right axis has tilted to the right since WW2.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#76

Post by merinowool »

merinowool wrote: post #58
r3bl wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should really look up how EU regulations work.

Enlighten me please, as I don't believe the reasons for passing it are genuine.

Surely they don't hand over cash, I didn't mean that, but they give benefits by different means.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#77

Post by gpvos »

hesk wrote: post #34
josteink wrote: post #10

This is what happens when those in control don't understand, know or care about the things they regulate. So I guess this is bad. --goes and reads article-- > Article 11, requiring online platforms to pay publishers a fee if they link to their news content, was also approved. What the fucking FUCK? Pay to send companies actual traffic? Pay to be allowed to use the basic building-block of the world wide web on the wor…

The law was basically made at the publisher’s behest to get Google to pay them. So far, it has spectularly backfired. In Germany, Google started to delist news sites from their index. After traffic dropped, the publishers gave Google a license to link freely. Law defeated. In Spain, they went a bit further and wrote into the law that Google had to list news sites in their index. So Google News shut down in Spain. Law…

Belgium, too (only Walloon publishers sued); I'm not sure if that was before or after Germany, but the result was the same.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#78

Post by bloak »

bengale wrote: post #66
merinowool wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this law has already been paid for, what you would get from your MEP is a template response in the spirit of "I share your concerns blah blah, but copyrights are important blah blah". I don't think you can do much about it at this point.

I'm in the UK. Conservative MEP did as you said, Labour one sent a bit of a boilerplate that they are considering it, UKIP are of course against it but thats par for the course with them, the green one sent a detailed response and is voting against both art 11 and 13 (the ones I raised issue with).

I have had some very intelligent non-boilerplate replies from Green Party UK MEPs. However, it looks as though we won't have another opportunity to vote for them.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#79

Post by toyg »

sampo wrote: post #15
specializeded wrote: post #5

IIRC, EU citizens helped defeat ACTA by taking to the streets and influencing parliament. Would I be mistaken in believing it can be done again, even without the additional anti-US/trade treaty attitudes that helped against ACTA?

European newspapers are left-leaning, so they were happy to write pieces criticizing free trade treaties. But now with the proposed link tax in Article 11, the newspapers pretty much support the proposed new copyright law. Without old media, it might be difficult to reach and inform a critical mass of people for demonstrations to happen.

> European newspapers are left-leaning

You missed "some". I can assure you there are plenty of right-leaning newspapers in Europe: The Times, Financial Times, Evening Standard, Daily Mail, The Sun, Corriere della Sera, Libero, Il Giornale, Il Foglio, L'Opinion, La Croix, Frankfurter Allgemein Zeitung, Die Welt, El Paìs...

It is true that the objections on this atrocious law are subdued to say the least, because the entire sector is complicit. Battered by the internet revolution, the press is desperate to find revenues. Part of the responsibility is squarely on "internet people" for their inability to find a modern business model for the sector, though: Google and friends have been happy to pick at the dying carcass of traditional media without giving anything back.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#80

Post by detaro »

Silhouette wrote: post #64
detaro wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, in July is (assuming someone will force it, which is likely) the vote by the EP to confirm the the committee is authorized to work with the Council on the plans. Whatever the negotiate out will then by voted on by the MEPs. The negotiation is likely to take a few months, and I kind of expect a fight about the speed: those against the proposal will want to stall to get the vote as close as possible to the election…

Right, but today's vote was just a committee. Next month it comes before the full Parliament. If sufficient awareness can be raised among MEPs before the vote next month that it becomes a toxic issue politically, my understanding is that voting it down at that stage would be an opportunity to effectively stop the whole process.

right, it would already by a good place to kill it, so yes, go call your MEPs!

But there's still another chance afterwards, which might be more successful given the timing of the election and people now maybe more likely to argue that it can be "fixed" in negotiations.

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