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The Machine Fired Me

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Re: The Machine Fired Me

#311

Post by kbart »

pkaye wrote: post #176

When a previous company was acquired, everyone got a new job offer generally better since the company wanted everyone to stick around. Well except for one guy. A junior engineer in one of our teams. He was a really good engineer too so we were shocked. It turned out he had the same first and last name as another person at our company so they thought it was a duplicate entry and omitted it. Eventually a offer was prep…

Heh, that's the real problem actually with buggy name-based systems. In my current company we have a person officially called "Name Surname 2" for the same reason.

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#312

Post by circlefavshape »

FrozenVoid wrote: post #227

When people think of "AI takeover", they don't expect that they're already controlled by it. We're approaching the state described in this story http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

Manna already exists in warehousing, I found out last weekend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice-directed_warehousing

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#313

Post by ajeet_dhaliwal »

jexah wrote: post #304
teekert wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a human and you can see in the computer that the prescription is regularly updated and you can even call the doctor if you doubted it. You can even check the prescription afterwards and if my story doesn't check out, do something about it. The migraine was pretty bad, imo it was like not treating a broken leg because of a missing insurance card or something.

You're really blaming the wrong people. Blame the doctor for screwing it up, your wife for not checking the prescription, or the government for creating/enforcing the relevant laws that would have put not only the chemist but their entire franchise underground for "doing the right thing". Laws are laws, broskie, don't expect everybody to break them for you. If the migraine was really bad (bad enough to cause tangible…

So in effect he's right to suggest the pharmacist should just be replaced by a robot because you would have them follow the rules no matter what with all humanity stripped out. If there was more than one pharmacist available it wouldn't have killed him/her to go and take a look at the wife in the car.

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#314

Post by rectang »

hueving wrote: post #246
wjnc wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's a theme I run across in many US-worker situations we read about on HN. There is such a lack of basic rights, but also basic norms when relating to workers. Ethical behaviour, from my perspective, would be to compensate the employee, regardsless of his legal rights. In a more worker-central system, the worker should have easy recourse to an official judgement for his money. In the Netherlands there is ev…

None of what you says really applies in this case. According to the article the thing that triggered this was the failure to renew his contract. If it had renewal intervals, that means he wasn't legally entitled to 3 years. This is likely why he wasn't paid for the interim either. The best the company could do would likely be to bump up the future rate or offer a "signing bonus". Being a contractor is not at all like…

While I agree with the letter of your legal analysis, it should not be "the best the company could do" to make the worker whole. It ought to be expected that both parties behave ethically.

The worker should not abandon the company during their time of need because of an unfortunate legal SNAFU. The company, in turn, should take it upon themselves to ensure that the worker doesn't suffer economically for having done the right thing by them.

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#315

Post by JdeBP »

bonyt wrote: post #161

This is literally an episode of Better Off Ted.[1] In it, the titular Ted is inadvertenly deleted from the company system when trying to correct a misspelling of his last name. Eventually, he is forced to interview for his own job as the system had already put out an ad for his replacement. I think the most striking part of it, and of the true story from the post, is the human factor - the idea that the humans involv…

I recommend reading the RISKS Digest. It has been a forum for this stuff for many years.

* http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/risks/

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#316

Post by DanBC »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #309
Rjevski wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most likely it’s an issue with contrast and overall darker skin colour. Can be solved by illuminating the face with IR though, which should work across all ethnicities.

Yes, but then you need special equipment rather than standard cameras (that usually filter IR); which would prove the point that it's about physical limitations rather than racism.

The racism comes from saying "We recognise human faces" and then not recognising a significant proportion of humans.

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#317

Post by UweSchmidt »

Rjevski wrote: post #292
zby wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have noticed that people following machine orders is also used by corporations to force customers to give up on their rights. I have a minor dispute with one of our communication providers and it is a real nightmare - according to the law I have the right, but the system does not include it and people don't know what to do in this case. Some other people higher up just wait until I give up.

Don’t pay the invoice until they either fix it or let it go (they can’t go to court as you’re in the right from a legal point of view). That’s what I always do with shitty utility providers - it’s funny how the “computer says no” excuse suddenly disappears when they start to be out of pocket.

Careful, automatic processes can give you trouble, cancel your service or hurt your credit rating.

I recommend complying with the process, mentally account for the extra costs when you sign up, stick to defaults and avoid complexity whenever possible.

On the other hand nowadays companies do respond to complaints much better than a few decades ago if you file complaints through their websites. Taking it to social media may also result in quick and drastic measures.

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#318

Post by icantdrive55 »

ReverseCold wrote: post #241
teekert wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. Recently I was at the pharmacy, the doctor wrote a wrong prescription and my wife was in the car having a hefty migraine. They wouldn't give me the drug even though they could see she has been using it for years and the wrong prescription could be solved afterwards. I think such people will be the first to be completely replaced by robots, I for sure wouldn't notice the difference, in fact I expect a robot t…

Okay this example makes sense. No prescription == no drugs (especially for painkillers and other things that people abuse). If you think this is a bad thing, then it's an organizational problem and has nothing to do with computers.

Pharmacists can legally dispense in emergencies.

Do they do it--no!

It's too bad what we have evolved into--uncaring, and hardened.

As to robots--I don't care. At least I know the robot will call doctors for refills, and get the right meds in the container.

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#319

Post by Rjevski »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #317
Rjevski wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t pay the invoice until they either fix it or let it go (they can’t go to court as you’re in the right from a legal point of view). That’s what I always do with shitty utility providers - it’s funny how the “computer says no” excuse suddenly disappears when they start to be out of pocket.

Careful, automatic processes can give you trouble, cancel your service or hurt your credit rating. I recommend complying with the process, mentally account for the extra costs when you sign up, stick to defaults and avoid complexity whenever possible. On the other hand nowadays companies do respond to complaints much better than a few decades ago if you file complaints through their websites. Taking it to social medi…

> cancel your service

By the time I arrive to this stage, I’ve already got a replacement lined up and all it takes is to flick a switch.

> hurt your credit rating

From experience, the problem eventually gets resolved and they cancel any black marks on your credit report. But personally I never cared about mine anyway.

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#320

Post by kamaal »

ironjunkie wrote: post #235
kamaal wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's general HR pep talk. In reality promotions mostly happen in organizations due to political lobbying with the powers. Even in these 'decent' tech companies you will see some people getting rapidly promoted and moving up the hierarchy, while genuine performers are stuck in the process and minutiae. Its just what kind of leverage your manager has with the upper management.

This. I think everyone should at least experience once to what length a company can go in order to keep someone they really need that threatens to leave. It happened once to me: in a 150k people company that had a well defined promotion model very similar to Google. I gave my resignation notice and suddenly all the HR pep talk was out of the roof. I gained two levels and was promoted to director level.I still left bu…

A big thing to note in these political systems. People tend to emphasize your interface to the systems as 'Company thinks X about you', 'Company values your work' etc.

Companies are not living systems and in general its just people making decisions.

I've been walked over many times now, but once, after all the work, I was nominated for an award the company's annual meet. My manager, his manager and all the way up assured me that based on what I had done the award was coming my way. I was even asked to prepare a small speech to give on the stage, they even asked for a photo to put up on slide deck with a small bio.

Two days before the meet, my manager and the director called me into a meeting room to tell me that I wouldn't be getting the award, and they didn't want it to be painful surprise to me during the meet. And they had tried everything they could.

Eventually my manager told me during lunch later that big time political lobbying had gone into this, and VP making decisions had no option as he would be cornered politically on other issues, if he didn't relent to demands of rewards from other corners.

Google or any other company. Performance has nothing to do with how you get paid/rewarded in any company.

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