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The Machine Fired Me

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Re: The Machine Fired Me

#291
For all the war stories given here and the various comments about system doing what they should or needing to have human overrides, what are the actual take-homes for programmers here?

I have spent many years automating tasks out of existence or at least to the point where it takes minutes instead of hours or days to do something.

My own take-homes from my own experience and all the comments here are:

1). make systems that have an interrupt and roll-back facility.

2). make sure that permanent effect actions are authorised properly. Especially when actions are for removals of any kind.

3). don't automate without good cause - hiring and firing are not good cause areas, even if certain specific sequences of actions can benefit from it.

4). think carefully of all the edge cases, you don't really want to be bitten in the nether regions by systems that cannot be stopped.

5). just because it appears to be simple, it probably isn't. So take a step back and look at the unintended consequences of that automation.

6). think strategically about what should be automated and raise awareness if there are obvious flaws with what is being requested.

7). a follow on to 6). is to not be afraid of asking questions and giving opinions.

8). if nobody will listen, then leave and find something else better to do with your precious time and experience.

I am sure that there are more gems that can be added to this list. Feel free to add, discuss or dispute.

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#292
post #262
post #161

This is literally an episode of Better Off Ted.[1] In it, the titular Ted is inadvertenly deleted from the company system when trying to correct a misspelling of his last name. Eventually, he is forced to interview for his own job as the system had already put out an ad for his replacement. I think the most striking part of it, and of the true story from the post, is the human factor - the idea that the humans involv…

I have noticed that people following machine orders is also used by corporations to force customers to give up on their rights. I have a minor dispute with one of our communication providers and it is a real nightmare - according to the law I have the right, but the system does not include it and people don't know what to do in this case. Some other people higher up just wait until I give up.

Don’t pay the invoice until they either fix it or let it go (they can’t go to court as you’re in the right from a legal point of view).

That’s what I always do with shitty utility providers - it’s funny how the “computer says no” excuse suddenly disappears when they start to be out of pocket.

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think you will enforce that contract? Hire a lawyer? You might as well go to the ATM grab as much cash as you possible. Then put it all in a garbage can and light a match. It will be far less costly and more productive then attempting pursue that contract.

Sue in small claims court for week 1. Win. Obtain judgment. File lien against company assets. Sue in small claims court for week 2. Win. Obtain judgment. File lien against company assets. Repeat as necessary. Offer settlement in return for not suing anymore.

In reality it would be: spend court fees..sue in small claims court. Win. Good luck collecting in many cases. Filing for a lien? Good luck with that pointless venture...

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#294
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A paper/protocol machine is still a machine, though. Sucks that it ate your headphones!

I am normally big on Solidarity with fellow Workers but the humans in this loop really should be automated away, because they knew what they were doing was a mistake and did it anyway, so what value were they adding? In fact they were worse than automation because at least that can be debugged, but there is no fix for the bureaucratic mindset. Especially since you could tell them to stop and they would say "yes" and…

>you could tell them to stop and they would say "yes" and then carry on anyway... //

This was discussed/commented on at length a couple of weeks ago. In Indian culture, apparently, the "yes" is like a verbal tick - kinda - and just acknowledges you've spoken without giving any commitment to doing anything (nor indeed indicating any level of understanding).

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#296
post #242
post #138

I had a similar experience but in reverse. About six months ago I left my long-time enterprise-y employer for a startup in another city. So we sold our house, packed up the family, bought a new house and moved in. After 3 months it became obvious I had made a terrible mistake, so we sold the new house, packed up the family again, and bought another new house in the same city we had just left 3 months ago so I could r…

Maybe next time just try out things at first? i.e. rent, move the family into the rented home after 2-3 months without selling the original house for some time.

Sure, but the GP wasn't asking for life advice.

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#297
post #262
post #161

This is literally an episode of Better Off Ted.[1] In it, the titular Ted is inadvertenly deleted from the company system when trying to correct a misspelling of his last name. Eventually, he is forced to interview for his own job as the system had already put out an ad for his replacement. I think the most striking part of it, and of the true story from the post, is the human factor - the idea that the humans involv…

I have noticed that people following machine orders is also used by corporations to force customers to give up on their rights. I have a minor dispute with one of our communication providers and it is a real nightmare - according to the law I have the right, but the system does not include it and people don't know what to do in this case. Some other people higher up just wait until I give up.

That’s very common with badly designed anomaly detection systems. Customer support say the system has detected something wrong in the customer behavior and ask, often order, to stop or fix whatever they’re doing. Neither customers nor support are able to intervene

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#298
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what I was thinking. If you had a contract and your manager was saying you were supposed to be working… Why not sue for the three weeks of pay that they illegitimately kept you from earning?

Because lawsuits are hard? Seeing a "why not sue" as a response is very "typical American" for outsiders.

People like to joke about and deride America's litigious culture but the US doesn't have the same labor rights infrastructure as other countries... sometimes lawsuits are the only legal recourse a "typical American" has.

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#299
post #120
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL so I might be wrong, but if they terminated his contract, I would assume they can't still legally pay him as if they hadn't. Of course, he's also well within his rights to sue over it.

IANAL either, but I did get a Bachelor of Law; one thing that was hard for me to get while I was studying is that while I thought of the law & contracts as a series of instructions that get executed by the "CPU" (our legal system), really for the most part it's being executed by humans who really dislike cute "this then that, screw context" thinking. I would not be surprised at all if a judge would laugh at an employ…

> I would not be surprised at all if a judge would laugh at an employer that tried to make the argument that he was "terminated" due to a clerical error and automated systems, therefore they don't need to pay him...

Yeah, judging from this thread and the negative scores on some of my comments, I was way off base about that.

Re: The Machine Fired Me

#300
post #196
post #161

This is literally an episode of Better Off Ted.[1] In it, the titular Ted is inadvertenly deleted from the company system when trying to correct a misspelling of his last name. Eventually, he is forced to interview for his own job as the system had already put out an ad for his replacement. I think the most striking part of it, and of the true story from the post, is the human factor - the idea that the humans involv…

See also the 1985 film “Brazil,” where a fly stuck in a printer (a bug!) sends a SWAT team after one Mr. Buttle instead of one Mr. Tuttle.

A classic! :)

  Mistake? *chuckles* We don't make mistakes!

  *crashing sound as an improvised plug for the new hole in the ground falls straight through*

  Bloody typical! They've gone back to metric without telling us!
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