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GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

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Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#111
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has built with both professionally, I'd say you're spot on. Vue has been great to work with because its readability and low-barrier to get started, but nothing beats writing plain-old JavaScript with some JSX. Not to mention, Vue can get really hairy with something as simple as passing props between components while React makes that a breeze.

Just to note you can use render functions and write jsx in Vue :) https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/render-function.html

But every time I ask about that, I get crickets. So who here is using JSX in Vue?

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#112

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

> React (really JSX) solves the single problem of making HTML a part of JavaScript. This is the crux of the matter. The people who find Vue appealing (myself included) come from the world of design and html+css markup and jQuery. We're not looking to get html into our JavaScript -- rather we're looking to get JavaScript into our html! There is absolutely no reason to switch from React to Vue if it's working for you (…

> The people who find Vue appealing (myself included) come from the world of design and html+css markup and jQuery.

This is something I've noticed-- spot on. Vue seems popular to people coming from the direction of "augmenting their HTML", whereas React is appealing to me precisely because it's all JavaScript.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I could technically dig a hole in the ground with a spoon...it would get the job done, after all...or I could use a shovel or a back hoe. All three are capable of digging holes. Discussing which tools work best is an important question in software development. After all, the tools you choose can be force multipliers in your overall productivity as a team or organization.

> Discussing which tools work best is an important question in software development. I completely agree, but would you write an article titled "Spoons still blowing away Forks in digging holes"?

Maybe...if Forks were more popular on Github?

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel. There has been a lot of "anti-React" virtue signaling in the Javascript community over the past few years, and I just don't get it. Why is your whole front-end team switching from React to X, where React - X ~ epsilon? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you're switching from jQuery or templates to X, it is more reasonable, but I've seen teams rewrite Angular and React codebase…

What do you mean by virtue signaling, and how should they defend their choice without virtue signaling? Is it possible that some just prefer to use something that feels closer to the W3C standards? Or is the virtue signaling about it being a facebook project, with facebook being a threat to the open web? Angular is a google project, but I've heard some say that since Evan You used to work for google it's sort of like…

Maybe I was being hyperbolic, but it could refer to any or all of the following:

  1. The W3C standards convention
  2. Being a product of Facebook
  3. The old license being restrictive
  4. Too much hype around the framework
I'm positive I've seen people conjure these reasons before. I was deterred from React mainly for the third reason. When they fixed their license, I felt no need to pursue alternatives. I've played around with Vue a bit, and I just wasn't compelled enough to switch to it. It seemed like a solved problem already. The only thing that will get me to switch from React is a 2x in performance and/or a 10x reduction in complexity or size.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I could technically dig a hole in the ground with a spoon...it would get the job done, after all...or I could use a shovel or a back hoe. All three are capable of digging holes. Discussing which tools work best is an important question in software development. After all, the tools you choose can be force multipliers in your overall productivity as a team or organization.

> Discussing which tools work best is an important question in software development. I completely agree, but would you write an article titled "Spoons still blowing away Forks in digging holes"?

No, because the cost of switching between the two is roughly zero. If switching took 6 months and $100K there would be lots of articles in the hole digging community about when and why to pick between the two.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> React (really JSX) solves the single problem of making HTML a part of JavaScript. This is the crux of the matter. The people who find Vue appealing (myself included) come from the world of design and html+css markup and jQuery. We're not looking to get html into our JavaScript -- rather we're looking to get JavaScript into our html! There is absolutely no reason to switch from React to Vue if it's working for you (…

Appreciate your comment, it sounds like Vue may be an easier option for you, if you don't want to write JavaScript. However, you should just learn JavaScript, even if you're doing nothing but designing components, will explain why. I also came from jQuery (Backbone and jQuery was a popular duo, in fact using jQuery in everything was). The way people wrote apps at one point basically was a stream of jQuery statements,…

> I don't think Vue would scale well

It kinda bothers me when people say X won't scale (implying that React is somehow special in this regard).

For one thing, we're not talking about things like database throughput where you can actually have scalability bottlenecks.

If we want to talk about scaling maintainability, React is definitely not much of a poster child either, compared to other solutions I've used over the years. We got a new context API only recently to deal with concerns Angular had already accounted for years ago, and things like the Enzyme adapter state of the world is pretty terrible - and don't even get me started on React Router migrations :)

IMHO, one major thing Vue did right that React didn't which has an impact on scaling maintainability is that Vue owns its most important peripherals (data management via vuex, styling via single file components, animations, etc). In my experience, the React model (also adopted by webpack and babel) is a real pain in the ass to support at scale as a web platform engineer, because many times you're at the mercy of some random dude with no connection to the core project and you end up having to settle with bizarre makeshift configurations, fork things or do other nasty things to get around random design direction changes.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#117
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that was how i felt too which was the same reason i disliked angular. but vue's templating syntax have turned out to be really enjoyable to use. it made me think how wrong i was of my initial impression of vue. you have to give it a try to understand it.

how do you access nested properties in Vue templates? You can't do a.b.c if b is undefined and instead need to wrap it into satanic template extensions

When logic starts to get too complicated you have the option to move it into a render function; you can even use JSX if that's your thing.

One of the nice things about Vue IMHO is how it leaves more flexibility to the developer to choose the right path.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#118
post #6

People have wildly different views on what Github stars are. Some see it as a way to bookmark project you find interesting while other simply stars whenever they feel like the project is impressive. Bottomline is: it's not a good metric, it's simply a way to see how "popular" something is and how likely it is that some random developer saw your project. While anecdotal, I've starred Vue because I see it as a cool pro…

Ohhhhh, now I understand why that one ex-coworker that 'follow' stars about 20 projects a week. I always used them as bookmarks and I couldn't believe that they ever were going to use that many things.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#120
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm comfortable staying in the React ecosystem for the rest of my career. You won’t have that option. No one has had it with their favourite tech for decades now. Hell I’d still be writing Motif code if I could. Unless you are 2 years from retirement in which case, enjoy!

2008 is more similar to 2018 than it is to 1998. I will wager that 2028 more similar to 2018 than 2018 was to 2008. Doesn't look like there's a future appearing where we strap on our Magic Leap and wave our hands around and suddenly single page apps appear. I'm giving my opinion that React ecosystem will stay around for an absurd amount of time because unlike jQuery, the size of the community and usability of the too…

See if the question is how do you host an application on a server and run thin clients with local rendering and some limited local interactivity... then that problem keeps getting solved over and over again. X11/Motif and “React running in the browser” are fundamentally the same thing. Every solution actually works pretty well, fulfilling all use cases. Then for no reason we chuck it all away and start again.

All of this has happened before and will happen again

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