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GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

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Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#101

Post by dmitriid »

jaequery wrote: post #70
amelius wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With React there's no weird "v-if ng-if" template logic that you have to grapple with. Yes, I hate that syntax. It's like they picked the worst from HTML and Javascript. Instead "if" statements should be dealt with in Javascript entirely. It's one of the reasons why I don't use Vue.

that was how i felt too which was the same reason i disliked angular. but vue's templating syntax have turned out to be really enjoyable to use. it made me think how wrong i was of my initial impression of vue. you have to give it a try to understand it.

There’s nothing enjoyable about Vue’s syntax. It’s not really HTML, and not really Javascript (it’s Javascript-like ... sometimes). Same goes for Angular, Polymer and Svelte.

And on the Javascript side Vue actually breaks existing assumptions about code. For example, it hoists methods and properties and makes `this` available where it can’t be available.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#102

Post by mike-cardwell »

I've never heard anyone say that you can do X in Vue much easier than in React. I've heard a bunch of people say that it's easier to learn than React, but I found React very very easy to learn anyway. Basically, I've not heard a convincing reason to look into Vue yet, so I haven't.

Also, people contact me about jobs involving React several times a week. I've never been contacted about a job involving Vue. Not once.

I'm sure Vue is good, but shrug, so is React.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#103

Post by abritinthebay »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #102

I've never heard anyone say that you can do X in Vue much easier than in React. I've heard a bunch of people say that it's easier to learn than React, but I found React very very easy to learn anyway. Basically, I've not heard a convincing reason to look into Vue yet, so I haven't. Also, people contact me about jobs involving React several times a week. I've never been contacted about a job involving Vue. Not once. I…

I don't think it should be framed as Vue vs React in the first place.

They approach similar (but not quite the same) problems in different ways. They are both really great! It doesn't have to be zero sum.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#104

Post by city41 »

yayana wrote: post #59
lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

I find the whole premise of putting the html in JavaScript bizarre and I think it is a passing fashion while the various debates around web components and shadow DOM isolation get sorted out. I would hope my graphic artist will eventually be mixing 3 layers of HTML elements that seem entirely standard to him except the 3 different sources of docs.

JSX isn't really an abstraction over HTML, it's an abstraction over document.createElement and the other related DOM APIs. I always liked it because that's really what is happening, JS is causing HTML elements to be created via those APIs. We aren't feeding the browser html files for it to parse.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#105

Post by dmitriid »

yayana wrote: post #59
lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

I find the whole premise of putting the html in JavaScript bizarre and I think it is a passing fashion while the various debates around web components and shadow DOM isolation get sorted out. I would hope my graphic artist will eventually be mixing 3 layers of HTML elements that seem entirely standard to him except the 3 different sources of docs.

> the various debates around web components and shadow DOM isolation get sorted out.

They won’t. jQuery was a much simpler concept and basically a fluent wrapper around a lot of existing APIs.

11 years later none of the browser APIs are not nearly as easy to use or powerful as jQuery. (Did you know that querySelectorAll returns an object that, unlike jQuery, isn’t an array and doesn’t have the same APIs? They added frigging .forEach to it only a few years ago).

Components are a more complex concept. You need data binding, and virtual DOMs (to prevent out-of-order janky updates to the DOM), and templating, and a solution for both global and isolated CSS, and..., and..., and...

These issues won’t be solved in the next 50 years. And that’s the reason no one uses (or talks about) vanilla WebComponents. Everyone is using any of the dozens of wrappers or frameworks on top of them.

Edit: added missing not in not nearly as easy

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#106

Post by yayana »

lsalvatore wrote: post #92
yayana wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that bizarre? Trying to enforce MVC is done even when it is a lost cause.. But you properly separate html, css and (arbitrary Code language to be replaced by transpiling) and all you hear is "I wish my graphic artist had to understand all of this and what a compiler does before he could fix my poor UX ideas.. and my copywriter should have to find my spelling mistakes using an IDE too." If my graphic artist exp…

It sounds like you're coming from a landing page/blog/Wordpress background. I'm primarily building data-driven apps, like financial data or dashboards. My UX/UI people don't come near my code, and I wouldn't want them to. For me, every time I need a new button, I'm not going to my designer, I'm just copying over the last button. So I need to be able to quickly edit styles, and state functionality, like dropdowns and…

I see just enough of landingpages and corporate customers and multilingual to see why most of these frameworks ship with toy features when it comes to the lifecycle of the overall site. Then you end up with two parts (a site in so.e kind of CMS and a compiled SPA) that have to look kind of alike where they can only sort of edit one..

Handlebars is just a general text template language so it was naturaly quite rough. From there one can move to dressing components in the angular style and keep the templates all in one folder and the custom CSS in one file.

My designer and I share the templates folder, I usually add enough attributes for bootstrap to do something or other and then the custom CSS is his and the code is mine.

If we were writing our SPAs for consulting clients it would be essential that the templates and CSS were not compiled so they could go on with them without us and without either paying us to keep a bunch of unstable node tooling able to compile and up to date or feeling like we intentionally snuck a time bomb into the project and are underhanded in seeking hours.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#107

Post by RussianCow »

pythonaut_16 wrote: post #78
RussianCow wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I expect within 2-3 years Vue and React will be on far more equal footing in terms of usage and jobs. I don't think this is true, primarily because of the number of large companies getting behind React and contributing to the ecosystem. Also, the difference between Angular and React is much larger (IMO) than the difference between React and Vue, which means there is less incentive to move to Vue if you already know…

On the other end, Vue is a natural move for companies looking to move off of jQuery and AngularJS but afraid or unwilling to make the move to React, and I suspect there are an order of magnitude more companies in this category than companies that have already adopted React.

I think you are right about the volume of companies in that category, though I think you are underestimating the network effect of a library with as much momentum as React. The libraries are similar enough that, for many (most?) projects, it makes more sense to use the more popular one.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#108

Post by dmitriid »

benatkin wrote: post #63
lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

With Vue and Angular you don't have to deal with controlled components, and you don't have to figure out how to mix JavaScript expressions with JSX expressions (sometimes it gets ugly).

In Vue and Angular you only need to figure out how to mix Javascript-like expressions with HTML-like templating language:

    
      
        {{ item.message }}

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#109

Post by taylorswift_ »

chrisco255 wrote: post #23
taylorswift_ wrote: post #15

Why do people care which framework "blows" the other one away? In my opinion, it literally doesn't matter at all and arguing over such things seems amateur. Use whatever tool gets the job done.

I mean, I could technically dig a hole in the ground with a spoon...it would get the job done, after all...or I could use a shovel or a back hoe. All three are capable of digging holes. Discussing which tools work best is an important question in software development. After all, the tools you choose can be force multipliers in your overall productivity as a team or organization.

> Discussing which tools work best is an important question in software development.

I completely agree, but would you write an article titled "Spoons still blowing away Forks in digging holes"?

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#110

Post by dereke »

lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

> With React there's no weird "v-if ng-if" template logic that you have to grapple with. To me, Handlebars already gave me enough taste of how horrible and limiting maintaining template logic outside of components is.

React was a good step in the right direction. But IMO they lost the plot with things like:

- shouldComponentUpdate(nextProps, nextState)

- componentDidUpdate(prevProps, prevState, snapshot)

and the whole props vs state thing. This adds so much unnecessary complexity to the code base.

Thankfully I can get all the benefits of the react style without any of the awkwardness of its API with hyperdom

https://github.com/featurist/hyperdom

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