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GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

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Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#81

Post by lsalvatore »

jordanlev wrote: post #71
lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

> React (really JSX) solves the single problem of making HTML a part of JavaScript. This is the crux of the matter. The people who find Vue appealing (myself included) come from the world of design and html+css markup and jQuery. We're not looking to get html into our JavaScript -- rather we're looking to get JavaScript into our html! There is absolutely no reason to switch from React to Vue if it's working for you (…

Appreciate your comment, it sounds like Vue may be an easier option for you, if you don't want to write JavaScript. However, you should just learn JavaScript, even if you're doing nothing but designing components, will explain why.

I also came from jQuery (Backbone and jQuery was a popular duo, in fact using jQuery in everything was).

The way people wrote apps at one point basically was a stream of jQuery statements, $thing.add('something'), etc.. This created nothing but spaghetti code over time.

Now, we're using React to design extendable components that can be nested, or structured to add more functionality. Check out styled components below to see how much easier it is to combine CSS, HTML into JavaScript. Rebass is built on this as a minimal component library. I know this might be really advanced and you may not adopt any of this, I'm just showing you the latest in what we could be moving toward.

I don't think I would leave React unless JS/HTML/Browsers dramatically changed. The industry is too far into JavaScript code at this point to where I am concerned about job security.

Back to your original point, I don't think Vue would scale well for serious JavaScript heavy apps, so that's why I don't think it's fair to compare it with React, but that's not how it's being discussed, which is some sort of React killer.

[1] https://www.styled-components.com/ [2] https://github.com/jxnblk/rebass

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#82

Post by serpix »

jaequery wrote: post #70
amelius wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With React there's no weird "v-if ng-if" template logic that you have to grapple with. Yes, I hate that syntax. It's like they picked the worst from HTML and Javascript. Instead "if" statements should be dealt with in Javascript entirely. It's one of the reasons why I don't use Vue.

that was how i felt too which was the same reason i disliked angular. but vue's templating syntax have turned out to be really enjoyable to use. it made me think how wrong i was of my initial impression of vue. you have to give it a try to understand it.

how do you access nested properties in Vue templates?

You can't do a.b.c if b is undefined and instead need to wrap it into satanic template extensions

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#83

Post by max_im »

lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

As someone who has built with both professionally, I'd say you're spot on. Vue has been great to work with because its readability and low-barrier to get started, but nothing beats writing plain-old JavaScript with some JSX. Not to mention, Vue can get really hairy with something as simple as passing props between components while React makes that a breeze.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#84

Post by lsalvatore »

mythrwy wrote: post #76
lsalvatore wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also wanted to make an additional comment expressing my frustration with the consistently negative comments on posts like this about JS Frameworks. These commenters, those who see React as "just another JS Framework" and whom see JavaScript developers as people who would change JS Frameworks as if they were ordering a new drink at Starbucks: These people are the epitome of amateur. Building web apps has been my car…

Thus spoke the priest of the inquisition confronting heretics distracting from the one true way:) I personally had a lot of trouble with React, I didn't care for it, it was too foreign, too invasive. Vue on the other hand just clicked nicely and appeared a thing of simplicity and beauty. But admittedly I'm a wanton sinner. Who also don't care for Facebook products no matter how great and open and popular they are.

React was created by Jordan Walke, a software engineer at Facebook. Facebook had a good reputation at the time, and so we forgive Jordan's divine genius for that slight error in career choice.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#85

Post by brightball »

lsalvatore wrote: post #66
lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

I also wanted to make an additional comment expressing my frustration with the consistently negative comments on posts like this about JS Frameworks. These commenters, those who see React as "just another JS Framework" and whom see JavaScript developers as people who would change JS Frameworks as if they were ordering a new drink at Starbucks: These people are the epitome of amateur. Building web apps has been my car…

Personally, I view it as a case of right-tool-for-the-job vs the-one-true-way.

The core of the matter boils down to one thing...everything on the web doesn't need to be an SPA because most things are open, check, close experiences.

For the things that don't need to be an SPA, where a server side app serving HTML is a significantly faster user experience and dropping in a small bit of JS here and there is the right approach...Vue makes sense. This is the same place that jQuery makes sense because it makes the goal simple.

For the places where you do need an SPA because the user is going to be opening your site/app and working within it for a while...absolutely...use React. If that's going to translate to a native application, even more so...use React.

The concern is that Single Page Apps with React are gaining the hammer-and-everything-is-a-nail experience...when really only a few things are nails and most things are actually screws.

Just pick the right tool for the job without all of the zealotry, like suggesting anything that is not react distracts people from using react.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#86

Post by mfer »

MooTools is in wider use on the web than Angular, React, and Vue.js combined. https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/javascript_library...

It's funny, to me anyway, that this post look at the developer/development side of things rather than the end consumers of apps/sites side of things.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#87

Post by nomocrypto »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #62
pgm8705 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a reasonable expectation that a framework with more users will have more documentation, more examples, more contributions from the community, etc. While I agree that a developer should choose based on what will make them most productive and happy, popularity is still an important factor. When comparing 2 or more frameworks or libraries to use, I always check out the github repo and look at the number of stars. I…

Also, in enterprise consultant built apps we often have to consider what kind of talent we're going to be able to get for that project. It's much easier to get Angular and React developers than Vue developers at the moment. That could certainly change in a year of course.

It boggles my mind that companies don’t expect frontend devs to be able to transfer knowledge between frameworks. Do they just not have that skill or do companies really not believe those devs are capable of that? Or both?

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#88

Post by codegladiator »

lsalvatore wrote: post #81
jordanlev wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> React (really JSX) solves the single problem of making HTML a part of JavaScript. This is the crux of the matter. The people who find Vue appealing (myself included) come from the world of design and html+css markup and jQuery. We're not looking to get html into our JavaScript -- rather we're looking to get JavaScript into our html! There is absolutely no reason to switch from React to Vue if it's working for you (…

Appreciate your comment, it sounds like Vue may be an easier option for you, if you don't want to write JavaScript. However, you should just learn JavaScript, even if you're doing nothing but designing components, will explain why. I also came from jQuery (Backbone and jQuery was a popular duo, in fact using jQuery in everything was). The way people wrote apps at one point basically was a stream of jQuery statements,…

> However, you should just learn JavaScript, even if you're doing nothing but designing components, will explain why.

I think you are reading wrong between the lines. There are no vue users who dont know javascript or are not using with it. The concern is really how are you mixing the two. vue is more of js inside html, while react is html inside js.

And its just a matter of opinion. I work on both vue and react apps and personally dislike writing html inside js. But if the project started earlier using react, I am not going to suggest a rewrite just because of this single preference.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#89

Post by Jach »

anonytrary wrote: post #58
lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

This is pretty much exactly how I feel. There has been a lot of "anti-React" virtue signaling in the Javascript community over the past few years, and I just don't get it. Why is your whole front-end team switching from React to X, where React - X ~ epsilon? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you're switching from jQuery or templates to X, it is more reasonable, but I've seen teams rewrite Angular and React codebase…

I don't see it as virtue-signaling but I do think there are three distinct JS communities, even if they overlap a lot, and sometimes they take swipes at each other. Maybe someone can point out more? The three I'm thinking of are 1) the classic webmaster group, aimed at building dynamic and interactive websites 2) the SPA group, making webapps, also extending into things like React-Native, but the web is just a delivery medium for their app 3) the backend group with Node, aiming at the types of things you'd otherwise have used PHP/Ruby/Python for.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#90

Post by lsalvatore »

gaius wrote: post #80
lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

I'm comfortable staying in the React ecosystem for the rest of my career. You won’t have that option. No one has had it with their favourite tech for decades now. Hell I’d still be writing Motif code if I could. Unless you are 2 years from retirement in which case, enjoy!

2008 is more similar to 2018 than it is to 1998. I will wager that 2028 more similar to 2018 than 2018 was to 2008.

Doesn't look like there's a future appearing where we strap on our Magic Leap and wave our hands around and suddenly single page apps appear.

I'm giving my opinion that React ecosystem will stay around for an absurd amount of time because unlike jQuery, the size of the community and usability of the tool scales really well. Maybe people said the same thing about Rails, or Motif, but I just feel like React is the end of the line for whatever we're doing here.

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