GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away • Hacker News Board

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#71

Post by jordanlev » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

> React (really JSX) solves the single problem of making HTML a part of JavaScript.

This is the crux of the matter. The people who find Vue appealing (myself included) come from the world of design and html+css markup and jQuery. We're not looking to get html into our JavaScript -- rather we're looking to get JavaScript into our html!

There is absolutely no reason to switch from React to Vue if it's working for you (and I don't think anyone in the Vue community would argue with that). But you came from using backbone -- the people who love Vue I think primarily come from using jQuery. We feel the same way about Vue as you do about React, and that's okay! (btw I also use react and also think it's great)

As for staying in React for the rest of your career -- give yourself more credit and hope you'll be around long enough that this isn't true :)

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#72

Post by lsalvatore » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 5:57 PM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #52

lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

To me, React also has the killer feature of being "generic enough" that I can see directly migrate-able variants of it still being used in ten years. The backend may change, but the basic setup of JSX -> function transpiling with param-attribute equivalency is simple enough to be a new foundational structure.

Yep, React seems to have been built from the beginning as a new foundation. It leveraged ES6 features just as they were coming out, so we got to learn a new way to write JavaScript and HTML at the same time.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#73

Post by lsalvatore » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 5:57 PM UTC

yayana wrote: post #59

lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

I find the whole premise of putting the html in JavaScript bizarre and I think it is a passing fashion while the various debates around web components and shadow DOM isolation get sorted out. I would hope my graphic artist will eventually be mixing 3 layers of HTML elements that seem entirely standard to him except the 3 different sources of docs.

The only bizarre thing is the HTML was ever separate from JavaScript in the first place.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#74

Post by tropshop » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 5:58 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #22

tropshop wrote: post #8

React ecosystem heavily encourages the use of build tools dependent on NPM package management. Vue users are more likely to bypass NPM. They are often on-boarded with the gentler approach most familiar to those who "sprinkle in some jQuery" - Drop in a tag and you are ready to rock. This approach is more likely to use a local file or from CDN.

Curious how Vue users are getting by without Webpack / Parcel for Babel and maintaining 3rd party dependencies via NPM? Copying and pasting Vue components from Stack Overflow? That approach may be fine for small web pages, but for commercial applications, it's not a viable approach.

We avoid Webpack/Parcel and NPM dependencies entirely. I understand that convenience wins for most people, but it comes with a cost. Dependencies are magically stitched together with limited developer insight, arbitrary 3rd party code can make it into your production bundle on a whim, and it is far from "optimized" output.

We use rollup[1] for our production bundle. We manage all 3rd party dependencies by source control. We don't need to rely on NPM for ES5/ES6/CommonJS/AMD/Modules - We have full control of each dependency to use the code that is most fit. Sometimes that is already checked-in by the author, sometimes we need to build it, sometimes we can use the modern ES6 code directly, sometimes we can remove duplicate polyfills already in our bundle.

It takes bit more discipline, but the extra security, optimal build, and peace of mind knowing how things work, are well worth the effort to us.

[1] https://rollupjs.org

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#75

Post by benatkin » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:00 PM UTC

anonytrary wrote: post #58

lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

This is pretty much exactly how I feel. There has been a lot of "anti-React" virtue signaling in the Javascript community over the past few years, and I just don't get it. Why is your whole front-end team switching from React to X, where React - X ~ epsilon? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you're switching from jQuery or templates to X, it is more reasonable, but I've seen teams rewrite Angular and React codebase…

What do you mean by virtue signaling, and how should they defend their choice without virtue signaling?

Is it possible that some just prefer to use something that feels closer to the W3C standards?

Or is the virtue signaling about it being a facebook project, with facebook being a threat to the open web? Angular is a google project, but I've heard some say that since Evan You used to work for google it's sort of like it's a google project, which I disagree with. The clear winner of the three for being independent of FAAMG is Vue. Angular at least has its own GitHub organization that makes it a bit less blatant of an ad for its corporate steward (remember io.js and the movement to get Node moved out of Joyent to a foundation?).

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#76

Post by mythrwy » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:03 PM UTC

lsalvatore wrote: post #66

lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

I also wanted to make an additional comment expressing my frustration with the consistently negative comments on posts like this about JS Frameworks. These commenters, those who see React as "just another JS Framework" and whom see JavaScript developers as people who would change JS Frameworks as if they were ordering a new drink at Starbucks: These people are the epitome of amateur. Building web apps has been my car…

Thus spoke the priest of the inquisition confronting heretics distracting from the one true way:)

I personally had a lot of trouble with React, I didn't care for it, it was too foreign, too invasive.

Vue on the other hand just clicked nicely and appeared a thing of simplicity and beauty.

But admittedly I'm a wanton sinner. Who also don't care for Facebook products no matter how great and open and popular they are.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#77

Post by duderific » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:05 PM UTC

iammiles wrote: post #24

After building two large applications using React, Redux, Redux Sagas, and Typescript, I feel burnt out. I'm honestly surprised Elm or ReasonML aren't more popular as they seem to provide all those aforementioned libraries in one go.

Vue is ascending precisely because it combines some of the better features of those libraries - most notably, the centralized data store concept, which was the driving force behind developing Redux (having your state in one place instead of spread out across many components.)

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#78

Post by pythonaut_16 » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:07 PM UTC

RussianCow wrote: post #42

pythonaut_16 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The use of "Blowing away" in the title is incendiary and unnecessary. It would be far better to state the metric they're using, i.e. "GitHub Stars !== Usage: React downloads still surpass Vue and Angular" It's taken React about 2-3 years to go from being head to head with Angular(JS) to being the dominant frontend ecosystem. I expect within 2-3 years Vue and React will be on far more equal footing in terms o…

> I expect within 2-3 years Vue and React will be on far more equal footing in terms of usage and jobs. I don't think this is true, primarily because of the number of large companies getting behind React and contributing to the ecosystem. Also, the difference between Angular and React is much larger (IMO) than the difference between React and Vue, which means there is less incentive to move to Vue if you already know…

On the other end, Vue is a natural move for companies looking to move off of jQuery and AngularJS but afraid or unwilling to make the move to React, and I suspect there are an order of magnitude more companies in this category than companies that have already adopted React.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#79

Post by yayana » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

lsalvatore wrote: post #73

yayana wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the whole premise of putting the html in JavaScript bizarre and I think it is a passing fashion while the various debates around web components and shadow DOM isolation get sorted out. I would hope my graphic artist will eventually be mixing 3 layers of HTML elements that seem entirely standard to him except the 3 different sources of docs.

The only bizarre thing is the HTML was ever separate from JavaScript in the first place.

How is that bizarre? Trying to enforce MVC is done even when it is a lost cause.. But you properly separate html, css and (arbitrary Code language to be replaced by transpiling) and all you hear is "I wish my graphic artist had to understand all of this and what a compiler does before he could fix my poor UX ideas.. and my copywriter should have to find my spelling mistakes using an IDE too."

If my graphic artist expected me to go into Adobe every time I needed a new background, I would ask him what his job was.

Re: GitHub Stars !== Usage: React Is Still Blowing Vue and Angular Away

#80

Post by gaius » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:10 PM UTC

lsalvatore wrote: post #45

No one I work with has ever even brought up the possibility of switching from React to Vue, let alone counting Github stars. Compare to when React came out, it was immediate consensus that we need to switch from Backbone to React. When Angular gained popularity, we did not have an urge to switch because it felt unclear what the scope and direction of Angular actually was. React (really JSX) solves the single problem…

I'm comfortable staying in the React ecosystem for the rest of my career.

You won’t have that option. No one has had it with their favourite tech for decades now. Hell I’d still be writing Motif code if I could. Unless you are 2 years from retirement in which case, enjoy!