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Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

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Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#61

Post by bitwize »

ramblerman wrote: post #8

> In life, like chess, every move has a consequence. This is all pretty hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning. My guess is that against the alternative of juveniles just sitting in a cell and being neglected any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort into them, and gets them passionate is going to have promising results. disclaimer: I think this is a great result, and should be promoted but the pseudo-scientif…

It's not that every move has a consequence, it's that chess requires you to think about the long-term ramifications of each move. Petty criminals often become so because they lack the capacity for such long-term thinking ability, or so goes the popular psychological theory, in which case chess may be an easy way to develop it.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#62

Post by leblowl »

bitwize wrote: post #61
ramblerman wrote: post #8

> In life, like chess, every move has a consequence. This is all pretty hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning. My guess is that against the alternative of juveniles just sitting in a cell and being neglected any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort into them, and gets them passionate is going to have promising results. disclaimer: I think this is a great result, and should be promoted but the pseudo-scientif…

It's not that every move has a consequence, it's that chess requires you to think about the long-term ramifications of each move. Petty criminals often become so because they lack the capacity for such long-term thinking ability, or so goes the popular psychological theory, in which case chess may be an easy way to develop it.

Yea I think that's spot on, at least the long-term thinking in chess part. I think that thinking about future actions is more often involved in chess than soccer or many other activities. In soccer the players on the board change positions too quickly to think very far ahead.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#63

Post by leblowl »

binarymax wrote: post #58
ams6110 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counter argument would be we should spend less on prisons, not more on other stuff. People who struggle to make ends meet within the confines of social norms and laws would say lock them up six to a cell and feed them rice and beans.

This argument is deeply flawed, since moving people into prisons is just throwing them away from your view. Many people are unjustly convicted and the idea of taking even more rights away from the incarcerated is barbaric and detrimental to our society. Prisons are micro-totalitarian regimes with abuse and violence as a part of every-day life. We should do everything we can do to reduce the number of people in prison…

I'm inclined to agree. I think if we can't stop a person from continually hurting others, like a serial killer, then yea we should probably put him/her/etc. somewhere safe. But other then that (and I am sure a few other cases) this whole locking people up thing seems inhumane. I don't advocate theft, but I don't think people should be kept in cages for it. After all we were born with nothing but our bodies to start with. Also one shouldn't be prosecuted for what they put in their own body. It's pretty odd that folks will bust down my door and lock me up for posession of heroin, but the doctor can deal it all day down the street.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#65

Post by nerdponx »

projectramo wrote: post #56
ramblerman wrote: post #8

> In life, like chess, every move has a consequence. This is all pretty hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning. My guess is that against the alternative of juveniles just sitting in a cell and being neglected any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort into them, and gets them passionate is going to have promising results. disclaimer: I think this is a great result, and should be promoted but the pseudo-scientif…

Yes, if this had backfired I wonder if people would talk about how chess "Makes you see everything in black and white. You win or lose, or rarely draw. There is no team work!" It would be interesting to know if chess is more effective than, say, reading or making movies. There is something intellectual about it.

I imagine there's something beneficial in the fact that it's competitive, and therefore non-solitary. You're forced to interact with your opponent.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#66

Post by gowld »

bitwize wrote: post #61
ramblerman wrote: post #8

> In life, like chess, every move has a consequence. This is all pretty hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning. My guess is that against the alternative of juveniles just sitting in a cell and being neglected any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort into them, and gets them passionate is going to have promising results. disclaimer: I think this is a great result, and should be promoted but the pseudo-scientif…

It's not that every move has a consequence, it's that chess requires you to think about the long-term ramifications of each move. Petty criminals often become so because they lack the capacity for such long-term thinking ability, or so goes the popular psychological theory, in which case chess may be an easy way to develop it.

That's a huge leap. Impulse control is an emotional/subconscious behavior, not a failure of planning. People with poor impulse control (most "stupid" criminals), can make plans but fail to execute them. Similar goes for ADD (which affects criminals and non-criminals).

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#67

Post by gowld »

ams6110 wrote: post #49
yardie wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add it to the long list of shit taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for, except prison. Incarceration costs $70-120k/pp/year. Keeping someone in custody for 10-20 years vs paying to learn a trade seems no nsensical. But that’s what the voters and politicians want.

The counter argument would be we should spend less on prisons, not more on other stuff. People who struggle to make ends meet within the confines of social norms and laws would say lock them up six to a cell and feed them rice and beans.

Do you think that people who struggle to make ends meet think that prisoners have a better deal than themselves?

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#68

Post by gowld »

J-dawg wrote: post #43
toomanybeersies wrote: post #20

In Australia, they have (or were) using flying lessons to try and rehabilitate drug addicts [1]. Apparently the idea was to stall the plane and have the patients recover from the stall, as a way of teaching them about taking control of their own life. I don't know what the long term results are, and it's part of a longer term rehab program so it would be hard to narrow it down specifically. Regardless, it's an intere…

I've noticed people often object to these types of schemes because they see them as rewarding people for bad behaviour. I'm not usually one of those people (If it works, it works, right?). But I feel like giving out flying lessons (a lifelong and unaffordable goal for many people) would be a pretty tough idea to sell to the tax paying public.

Drug addiction is a disease, not a "bad behavior"

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#69

Post by gowld »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #55
implements wrote: post #21

Season 1, episode 3 of "The Wire" has a pretty inciteful scene featuring Chess as a metaphor for the criminal life ("Pawns get capped early."): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztc7o0NzFrE

As much as I love the Wire, it should have mentioned that collectively pawns are the most powerful. A good pawn structure controls the center and the game.

... if they don't get capped early. In a less-positional game, the players are going to capture pawns to build an edge, not attack the queen immediately.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#70

Post by gowld »

d0lph wrote: post #47
toomanybeersies wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they're locking kids up in juvie for tax evasion...

Technically children do have to pay taxes.

Simply "not paying" taxes gets you a bill, not jail time. It's hard work to do the kind of evasion that gets jail time.
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