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New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

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Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#241

Post by selectodude »

anon23423532 wrote: post #225
selectodude wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A name with a bunch of numbers behind it spouting off unsourced nonsense is trademark Russian bots on Twitter, so I'd just leave it alone.

muh russia, don't consider anything the media doesn't tell you! See reply above

You posted three articles, two of which don't have China in them even once (I crtl+F'd China, nothing), and the third which is titled "China may use Canada as 'Trojan horse' into US market", an op-ed written by Danny Lam, who if you google may as well not exist. I cannot find him anywhere.

muh russia! You should be proud to be paid for this idiocy, because otherwise you'd be that gullible and that would be tragic.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#242

Post by greeneggs »

alkonaut wrote: post #175

Apart from some steep farm/dairy tariffs, what are the huge tariffs that other countries impose on US exports? I thought the gist of this whole debate was that the US administration somehow thought VATs applied abroad somehow made US products less competitive and therefore was in fact a tariff? I do realize this sounds too dumb even for the current administration so I may be wrong.

I'm not sure quite what you are looking for, but you can browse tariff rates at the WTO website http://tariffdata.wto.org/ . It would be nice to find a better source, though.

For example, China has a 65% tariff on cereals such as wheat and rice, a 50% tariff on sugar, a 57% tariff on some tobacco products, and a 50% tariff on some fertilizers. (This is for other WTO members, or "most favored nation (MFN)".)

The United States has WTO MFN tariffs of 132-164% on some peanuts and peanut products (e.g., peanut butter), and 350% on some tobacco products.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#243

Post by rdlecler1 »

Reading the comments I think people are forgetting this is a cooercive and retaliatory tariff on China, not a merchantislist policy. Is someone going to change their whole supply chain if this gets resolved in 3-6 months? The US is arguing that effectively China has been waging a trade war with the US and has merchantialist and nationalistic economic policies that make it difficult for US companies to compete.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#244

Post by tclancy »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #145
hsnewman wrote: post #115

Tariffs are anti-competitive, a tax on the economy, and go against all sound economic theories. I am out of the market, you should be too.

Tariffs do not go against all sound economic theories lol.

Just most of them. Certainly there are some edge cases where the other country's tariffs are so egregious the damage to the home country's citizens/ economy is helped by the tariff and they can be used to prevent dumping, but in anything close to ideal markets/ classical economics, tariffs are more likely to impose a cost on the host country's consumers while giving most of the benefit to a small group.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#245

Post by jpindar »

dalbasal wrote: post #136
maxerickson wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People buying products subject to tariffs (or products made with materials subject to tariffs) pay the majority of the tariff. So they do cost the public. In a functioning market, local suppliers are likely to raise prices in response to the tariffs, as they face less competition.

I'm not arguing against this. There are winners: local producers, at least in the short term. There are losers: to importers and consumers. What I'm arguing is that there are always winners and losers to trade barriers. Tariffs make it easy to understand and quantify this, because they are explicit and straightforward. They're flexible and leave less legacy or mess. It's always clear what they are trying to achieve,…

But there aren't any American producers of many of those items.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#246

Post by IanDrake »

endorphone wrote: post #230
IanDrake wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those where meant to be protectionist. We are playing hardball on trade renegotiation. The recently announced tariffs are leverage to get a fair deal at the negotiating table. There’s a big difference between the two motives.

"The recently announced tariffs are leverage to get a fair deal at the negotiating table." The US has a trade surplus with Canada, has a higher average tariff, has been the bigger beneficiary of trade, yet Trump has announced tariffs on Canada, to an enormous backlash (and Canadians seriously rethinking their integration in the US economy). This isn't leverage, or masterful negotiating. It's a hamfisted moron bashing…

Your TDS is altering your perception of the world around you. I’m no Trump fan, but at least I can be objective.

Stop reading the headlines and start reading between the lines. It’s a skill that will serve you well in life.

Last time I checked most people in the US were against the TPP including Clinton.

A good trade deal doesn’t require 5,600 pages.

I’m not worried about trade imbalances in absolute dollars, I’m concerned with trade imbalances with tariffs and subsidies that make US exports unable to compete.

For Canada where did you get the higher average tariff from? What is that? A higher average of all tariffs on all goods? A higher amount of absolute dollars paid in tariffs? The number alone is meaningless without context.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#247

Post by DenisM »

selectodude wrote: post #199
raesene9 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got a Citation for Canada and the EU allowing Chinese steel shell companies (the recent tariffs against canada and the EU targeted steel)? I'd not heard that argument at all so far.

A name with a bunch of numbers behind it spouting off unsourced nonsense is trademark Russian bots on Twitter, so I'd just leave it alone.

It’s against the rules to accuse the other participants of being bots or shills. Please address the argument, not the person.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#248

Post by throwawayjava »

phd514 wrote: post #203
throwawayjava wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument that Switzerland provides a model for high tariffs creating wealth is... especially ironic. Switzerland is one of the least tariff-encumbered economies in the world, reguarly topping out various free trade indicies [1]. And in Switzerland's case, that's almost certainly causual. Average salaries in Switzerland are so high because of the disproprtionate role Switzerland plays in EU and global banking -- a…

It doesn't make a lot of sense that Switzerland is the EU's version of MA or NY or that Zurich is the EU version of NYC or SF given that Switzerland is not in the EU and quite happy that way, too.

The analogy makes perfect sense.

They're both instances of a relatively small area with very tight historical ties to a much larger region. The relationship between the local economies and the regional economies bears enlightening similarities.

US states are not sovereign nations. but the analogy b/w EU member states and US states still makes perfect sense in some economic discussions.

The analogy is useful. A more apt criticism of the analogy might be "Switzerland's economy is not tightly integrated and dependent on the EU's economy" or "Switzerland has lots of tariffs", but neither of those things is true.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#249

Post by agumonkey »

gruez wrote: post #79
agumonkey wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This trick is only working randomly

really? never got hit with duties from imports that were under-declare, even in cases where the item in question was obviously worth more than $20 (eg. phones).

yes, I got a case of bad luck even though the guys said they'd mark it as gift to avoid issues (but said it wasn't failproof).

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#250

Post by scroogly »

rdlecler1 wrote: post #243

Reading the comments I think people are forgetting this is a cooercive and retaliatory tariff on China, not a merchantislist policy. Is someone going to change their whole supply chain if this gets resolved in 3-6 months? The US is arguing that effectively China has been waging a trade war with the US and has merchantialist and nationalistic economic policies that make it difficult for US companies to compete.

So why institute a tariff that makes it harder for US companies to compete, by excusing finished products in order not to piss off consumers?
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