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In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

nytimes.com

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Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#81

Post by jackvalentine »

pas wrote: post #80
jackvalentine wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somalian pirates are the result of international fishing fleets depleting the fish in the area giving the local fishermen few other options. (It’s more complicated than that, but so is everything)

Sorry, but that explains nothing for me. OP said: Europeans now sail to Somalia to fish. Why would Europeans go so South into the Gulf of Arden? Why would Norwegian fishers go South? What's going on? Where's the data? What are the incentives? Does Somalia have fishing quotas? Is there any anti-overfishing agreement system for that region?

Oh you want someone to explain something specific about European nations motivations? I suggest that you then be more specific with your own request.

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1892376,00...

> Ever since a civil war brought down Somalia's last functional government in 1991, the country's 3,330 km (2,000 miles) of coastline — the longest in continental Africa — has been pillaged by foreign vessels. A United Nations report in 2006 said that, in the absence of the country's at one time serviceable coastguard, Somali waters have become the site of an international "free for all," with fishing fleets from around the world illegally plundering Somali stocks and freezing out the country's own rudimentarily-equipped fishermen.

> High-seas trawlers from countries as far flung as South Korea, Japan and Spain have operated down the Somali coast, often illegally and without licenses, for the better part of two decades, the U.N. says.

They do it because there were a lot of fish there and no functional government to stop them or enforce quotas.

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#82

Post by Pica_soO »

Pica_soO wrote: post #40
dotancohen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans now sail to Somalia to fish. They are doing terrific damage there, and the local human and animal populations there are suffering food shortages as a result.

Somalis dont eat fish. So yes, here it is a tradition that prefers starvation to using "poor mans" food. https://www.somalispot.com/threads/why-do-somalis-hate-fish-...

In retrospect should have gone into depth here.

There are fish dishes, traditional ones in coastal towns. But as the cooling chain is often none-existant, the parts of the country more far away from the coast only eat canned fish or salt-fish.

Its general either to expensive, or in danger of being rotten. So if you have a surplus of cattle/sheep/goat, anyone would prefer steak to the health hazard.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...

(Page 5) >wealthy groups in all the areas opt for fresh fish with soft texture contrary to the poor such as those in Afgoye and Adale who consume fish with rough texture and smell because they cost less than other types of fish. Common low quality fish mostly consumed by the poor are Gacoore (Alestes affinis) and Koronto or electric fish in Afgoye. Some respondents in Bardera and Shinile in Hiran admitted dislike for fish due to associated smell therefore do not consume it at all. The quality of fish consumed also depends on preservation and storage methods employed. Generally, the preservation and storage techniques are poor thus most of the fish is consumed immediately after buying. Poor preservation methods and facilities are very often the cause of spoilage.

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#83

Post by icsllaf »

daliusd wrote: post #78
nickthemagicman wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They worked hard to get born to rich parents.

You have very low margin for being called "rich" in that case. Some of the top richest people were born in quite average Westerners family. E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Bezos#Early_life_and_educ...

Not to compare what average lives are but

>He accepted an estimated 300,000 from his parents and invested in Amazon

This is the exact difference between someone who works and someone who is handed money to do work. I don't know if Amazon would be alive without this transaction, but it sure helped that Bezos was given 300k by his parents.

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#84

Post by candiodari »

jackvalentine wrote: post #77
candiodari wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what is the solution given that these people exist ? Because undoing that seems immoral now, even by non-catholic standards. I mean the best interpretation of your comment is wishing for an alternate world (in which millions of people would never have been alive in the first place). In the middle the comment is assigning blame for that. At worst ... I get that dozens of millions of people not being alive would so…

He’s talking about the millions of people not yet born. When you find yourself in a hole the first thing to do is stop digging.

And what will happen to the country and the economy that sustains them if they "stop digging" ?

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#85

Post by jackvalentine »

candiodari wrote: post #84
jackvalentine wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s talking about the millions of people not yet born. When you find yourself in a hole the first thing to do is stop digging.

And what will happen to the country and the economy that sustains them if they "stop digging" ?

We'll have to figure that out, won't we? The Philippines birth rate is somewhere in the vicinity of 3 children per woman. What's a more sustainable number?

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#86

Post by pas »

jackvalentine wrote: post #81
pas wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but that explains nothing for me. OP said: Europeans now sail to Somalia to fish. Why would Europeans go so South into the Gulf of Arden? Why would Norwegian fishers go South? What's going on? Where's the data? What are the incentives? Does Somalia have fishing quotas? Is there any anti-overfishing agreement system for that region?

Oh you want someone to explain something specific about European nations motivations? I suggest that you then be more specific with your own request. http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1892376,00... > Ever since a civil war brought down Somalia's last functional government in 1991, the country's 3,330 km (2,000 miles) of coastline — the longest in continental Africa — has been pillaged by foreign vesse…

Thanks! It's really fucked up. Especially that quite a few navies were making sure the trade route is secure, but they haven't bothered to stop or at least somewhat deter these illegal trawlers.

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#87

Post by nickthemagicman »

zip1234 wrote: post #79
nickthemagicman wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first thing the world needs is to wrestle money from these billionaires and fund education for people. Educated people will understand the impact of their kids, and also have a better chance at making a contribution to society, and taking care of their families they do have.

Huh? Isn't Bill Gates spending his money strategically to best help those people. He's spent over $15 Billion dollars on vaccines. I highly doubt a government will be able to spend that money more effectively.

He is one of the very few oligarchs giving above and beyond the amount required for tax breaks.

It's funny to me because you're bitching about effective govt spending on the internet..a technology developed by the govt.

Id argue government funding has developed more cures for diseases and more technological advances than any other sources of funding in all of history.

NASA put a man on the moon..

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#88

Post by Kalium »

titzer wrote: post #54
ponzored wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its a general cultural disdain for the environment within some cultures. Most of the world's plastic pollution coming out of 10 Asian and African rivers for example. This is why arguments from educated, intelligent and responsible Westerners that they themselves shouldn't have children in order to reduce the impact on the planet are flawed. If not for their children with the same skills and views, who else wi…

> Most of the world's plastic pollution coming out of 10 Asian and African rivers for example. Well I've been to a lot of places with plastic pollution problems and I picked up gobs of that shit off the world's beaches. I can tell you that despite their prevalence, plastic bottles, chip bags, straws, flippers, lids, cups, forks, and knives don't spring out of the ground. They don't grow on trees. Most aren't made in…

It's possible - just perhaps barely possible - that you might get a better reception from a more friendly audience if you didn't describe trade as theft. In the eyes of many, it robs your truthful, necessary, utterly critical message of credibility to the people who most need to internalize it.

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#89

Post by Arnt »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #67
Arnt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trying to say that if you buy a fishing boat with money you borrowedfrom Warren Buffett, then dynamiting the fish is understandable, but if you borrow from the ABC Pension Fund it's not?

I'm trying to say that with less inequality and more resources available to them, these people could go to the grocery store to feed their family, or go to school to get a profession... Its not a complex idea at all.

Not a complex idea.

But it sounds as if you're trying to blame eight rich people, when you yourself have your henchmen, oops, your fund managers do the same thing. (I assume you're trying to get a maximum interest for your own pension savings?)

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