Uber is experimenting with letting riders wait longer for a cheaper fare • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber is experimenting with letting riders wait longer for a cheaper fare

#161

Post by mlthoughts2018 » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 12:12 PM UTC

magicbuzz wrote: post #130

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the reverse service expectations. I want absolutely cheap but non-shared point-to-point rides. Beyond some very minimal, basic safety and competency as a driver, I stop caring and just want it to be as cheap as possible. If I could indicate that I’ll happily be paired with a low rating driver if it is cheaper, I would. And it sounds like adding this functionality could satisfy both of our use cases too!

That mindset has made flying in the US the experience it is today.

You mean, something that even lower middle class people can afford?

Your comment rings sanctimonious to me.

While I agree that major airlines should do better in some areas, they are also just responding to consumer demand.

Should the people who cannot afford higher fares just exist in a lower caste where flying is not achievable? Those people for whom lower fares are the priority, you feel they just shouldn’t be able to attend a family member’s funeral or college graduation?

That is how things are in my extended family in the US. A spare couple hundred dollars for even a routine round-trip fair between major cities is still a very difficult stretch for them.

If grumpy people who can easily afford the flights are annoyed by the lack of frills and the cheapness, yet people who are less well off can possibly afford more flights, that seems like a positive overall for society to me.

Re: Uber is experimenting with letting riders wait longer for a cheaper fare

#162

Post by ghaff » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 12:33 PM UTC

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #161

magicbuzz wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That mindset has made flying in the US the experience it is today.

You mean, something that even lower middle class people can afford? Your comment rings sanctimonious to me. While I agree that major airlines should do better in some areas, they are also just responding to consumer demand. Should the people who cannot afford higher fares just exist in a lower caste where flying is not achievable? Those people for whom lower fares are the priority, you feel they just shouldn’t be abl…

The problem is that it's often hard to cleanly separate the cheap vs. comfortable use cases. It works reasonably well for intercity buses in the US which people mostly take because it's the lowest cost option and people with more money mostly don't take.

Unfortunately in the airline industry we've tended toward an overall race to the bottom which explicitly budget airlines and different classes of service only help to a limited degree to separate out people with different preferences.

Re: Uber is experimenting with letting riders wait longer for a cheaper fare

#163

Post by StavrosK » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 12:42 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #145

scrollaway wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Greece, we recently lost Uber. We're back to taxis. It's incredible how bad an experience those are after going back to them. Cars that smell like cigarette (that's if the driver isn't outright smoking in your face), don't have AC, are old, dirty and with uncomfortable ripped-up seats. Send your lower-quality drivers my way. I miss not wanting to vomit whenever I take a cab.

What about Beat? I heard it works different than Uber, you can actually choose your driver based on your desired characteristics (e.g. speaks English, has A/C, ...).

Beat is pretty much the best of both worlds for me. It doesn't have Uber's "let's flaunt all the laws because disruption" attitude, but it still has all the advantages, and every single driver I've booked with Beat has been fantastic. I'm never getting a taxi without using Beat these days.

Re: Uber is experimenting with letting riders wait longer for a cheaper fare

#164

Post by mlthoughts2018 » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 1:41 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #162

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean, something that even lower middle class people can afford? Your comment rings sanctimonious to me. While I agree that major airlines should do better in some areas, they are also just responding to consumer demand. Should the people who cannot afford higher fares just exist in a lower caste where flying is not achievable? Those people for whom lower fares are the priority, you feel they just shouldn’t be abl…

The problem is that it's often hard to cleanly separate the cheap vs. comfortable use cases. It works reasonably well for intercity buses in the US which people mostly take because it's the lowest cost option and people with more money mostly don't take. Unfortunately in the airline industry we've tended toward an overall race to the bottom which explicitly budget airlines and different classes of service only help t…

I’m not sure I agree. With flights, wealthy people would just charter a private flight or travel on a luxury or boutique airline, apart from the traditional option of first-class.

What it sounds like you are saying is that there is a group of middle class or upper middle class people who won’t choose to spend the amounts required for the luxury option (the equivalent of not taking the bus), and yet feel grumpy that the slightly higher prices they would prefer to pay end up pricing almost all flights out of the market for other middle class or lower middle class travelers.

“Cleanly separate the cheap vs comfortable use cases” seems simple: airline economics just implies that the prices for the comfortable (“not taking the bus”) option are staggeringly high, and that so many customers strongly prefer the cheap (“just treat the airplane like it’s the subway”) option, that airlines must structure the offerings around that fact.

Re: Uber is experimenting with letting riders wait longer for a cheaper fare

#165

Post by ihsw2 » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 1:45 PM UTC

Frequently, the actual time-to-pick-up does not match the predicted time-to-pick-up. It's effectively the proposed system -- you have to wait longer. Now they want to make you wait even longer.

Why not offer better service for higher prices (instead of the reverse)? Getting service from a "super" tier of drivers, ones that have:

* a history of ON TIME pick-ups

* fluent spoken English

* straightforward following of GPS directions

* GUARANTEED air-conditioning

* non-smoking

* quiet not talking loudly on the phone

* not a POS car with destroyed vehicle suspension/shock absorbers and trashed seating

Re: Uber is experimenting with letting riders wait longer for a cheaper fare

#166

Post by ghaff » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 1:56 PM UTC

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #164

ghaff wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it's often hard to cleanly separate the cheap vs. comfortable use cases. It works reasonably well for intercity buses in the US which people mostly take because it's the lowest cost option and people with more money mostly don't take. Unfortunately in the airline industry we've tended toward an overall race to the bottom which explicitly budget airlines and different classes of service only help t…

I’m not sure I agree. With flights, wealthy people would just charter a private flight or travel on a luxury or boutique airline, apart from the traditional option of first-class. What it sounds like you are saying is that there is a group of middle class or upper middle class people who won’t choose to spend the amounts required for the luxury option (the equivalent of not taking the bus), and yet feel grumpy that t…

I don't wholly disagree with you. It's partly that the true service upgrades for flying--even if you just talk commercial--are priced at a completely different level from economy even though they maybe cost about 2x more per passenger.

That said, if you have Pre-check, airline status, airline club membership, maybe pay a bit more, etc. in practice you get a bit more legroom, early boarding, (usually) fairly fast security, etc. So, in that sense, there is a mild upgrade option relative to barebones cheapest tickets. (Depending on the airline.)

Re: Uber is experimenting with letting riders wait longer for a cheaper fare

#167

Post by code_duck » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #76

code_duck wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't there be some point at which they're established and don't need to work so hard at those things?

Probably not. Riders and drivers are both primarily price-driven. They have little or no brand loyalty. It's a low-margin, race-to-the-bottom type of business. L5 self-driving cars will be a game-changer for a while, assuming Uber gets exclusivity from Waymo (which now owns a stake in Uber).

It seems to me that they are very well known at this point, and don't have significant competition. I don't see why they would be spending so much money for marketing... maybe in the past, maybe in the future. I must not understand the market.

I'm sure there's plenty of analysis of this out there, so I should read some articles.

Re: Uber is experimenting with letting riders wait longer for a cheaper fare

#168

Post by candu » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

chrisabrams wrote: post #7

Based on my rides recently I have seen the quality of drivers plummet on both Uber and Lyft. I'd be much more willing to wait (and maybe even pay) for a higher quality driver. Having a driver who cannot follow a GPS and takes you in a circle 3-4 times around the airport or does not speak English well enough to understand your request to stop on the right instead of the left like the GPS shows can be quite frustrating…

As a cyclist, I cringe every time I see an Uber or Lyft sticker on a car now. These are amateur drivers doing a job that should require at least some professional training, and it shows: blocking bike lanes (and often traffic lanes too!), failing to look for cyclists when merging back into traffic (or turning right, etc.), not signalling turns half the time...

I've narrowly missed getting side-swiped more times than I can count, to the point where I'm seriously considering mounting a handlebar cam just to capture license plates.

So: if you're a Lyft or Uber driver, please please please please learn your obligations with respect to cyclists / pedestrians and associated infrastructure. (For instance: did you know that many jurisdictions have a mandatory minimum passing distance (usually 3ft / 1m), or that cyclists have "take the lane" rights in California? [1]) Otherwise, you shouldn't be on the road, and you definitely shouldn't be driving other people around for money.

[1] http://www.calbike.org/bicycling_in_california_sharing_the_r...

Re: Uber is experimenting with letting riders wait longer for a cheaper fare

#169

Post by icebraining » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 2:26 PM UTC

selectodude wrote: post #85

Pyxl101 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Uber had to shell out to fix the streets that they use, I bet it wouldn't be so cheap. Streets are public infrastructure and are paid for by taxes, which Uber and all other companies that do business using roads presumably pay, just like everyone else. So, unless you have a specific reason to believe otherwise, it is fair to assume that yes, Uber is paying for the streets that they use. If streets are not being…

>Uber is paying for the streets that they use. Uber doesn't pay a cent in gas taxes (they're not employees, they're partners, right?), and since they've never made money before, they don't pay a cent in taxes either.

Careful about mistaking accounting for economics. If gas taxes were lowered to zero, could Uber increase their share of the ride payment by the current tax amount, without harming their relationship with the drivers? If so, then Uber is paying that tax, not the drivers.

Re: Uber is experimenting with letting riders wait longer for a cheaper fare

#170

Post by firic » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

plankers wrote: post #128

r00fus wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets worse. Uber relies on a roadway network built by tax money (BART can't). They also ignore all the externalities of pollution (Bart is minimal in comparison). The comparison between the two can't be made without adding in more factors.

It's rare that I see anyone bring up the pollution induced by Uber's (and Lyft's) business models. Now there's something I'd like to see studied more intensely.

I don't remember where but I heard that just manufacturing a car cause more pollution than it's entire lifetime on the road. If Uber prevents people from buying cars then Uber may actually be environmentally friendly.