New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring
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Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring
#32When it comes to trade war topic these days, most Western commentators completely miss that a trade war is what China was preparing for the last three decades. They well expected somebody like Trump eventually coming, as well as economic pressure on a scale even bigger than what the West puts on North Korea and banana republics. They totally understood that the West will not play nice with them forever, nor that the unprecedentedly long period of good weather in the global economy will last forever.
There is zero questions about China's economic policy being very strategic, and deliberate. Chinese state conglomerates may look to just littering around the world with money, but analyze it more, and you see a pattern, one that is very much like a game of Go - victory by limiting enemy moves.
They buy ally countries, strategically - they buy resource supplying countries, often with major holds on markets of vital commodities.
Their tech purchases - mostly underappreciated market leaders with industry wide influence. Kuka - the only company you can say to be Tier 1 in robotics, all other competitors combined will not be an equivalent for it. I has almost complete dominance over major heavy industries. Lattice Semi - the one and only FPGA company that can threaten the Xilinx-Altera duopoly. And so on and on and on.
Their domestic tech development - even more so. People talk about China dominating consumer goods manufacturing without realisation that it has even bigger hold of manufacturing machinery industry - manufacturing can't really leave China with Chinese made manufacturing equipment being locked down.
The whole industry you can call "Manufacturing machinery 2.0" is a domestic Chinese development. Biotech - China quietly ate the market for genetic engineering reagents, as well as much for complex organic chemistry. There are megatons of biotech startups in the West, but they all feel that they will eventually have to move to China to have any chance to scale - effectively they are already a Chinese property.
Military allies - well, there things are even more obvious.
Major trade agreements - same. Their idea is to bind any major developing market niche to Chinese economy before the West even realizes its emergence.
Their idea - to make it so that if somebody wants to do anything any much big being impossible without involving a Chinese company or state institution at some part of the process - to make it "You can't do that without China"
Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring
#33I really hate the new tariff. There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. The economy is recovering and I believe it may now be heading toward a recession. Here's the quick data on job created in raw number without the quality of the job to show that it is recovering since the 2008 recession: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2…
And yet other countries never seem to entertain the idea of both sides getting rid of all their tariffs, which is something Trump suggested at that G7 summit.
Everyone goes nuts when the US suggests implementing tariffs against countries that already have tariffs against us. You gotta admit, the message seems to be that other countries are allowed to protect their domestic industry via tariffs and the US is just supposed to deal with it, don’t wanna start a trade war!
Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most cheapo small ebay things are sent as 'fat letters'(up to a point) but be warned if the thing is an actual box, you'll enjoy both import fees AND additional random importation tax handling fees.
AFAIK most sellers under-declare the value and mark as gift on their manifest, so the packages don't get taxed.
Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring
#35Out of all possible trade barriers, I think tariffs are generally the better option. The alternative is subsidies, quotas or "unofficial" barriers like product safety rules or other burry-you-in-bureaucracy setups. Tariffs bring in taxes (as opposed to costing the public) They're easier to understand. This one makes Chinese microwaves x% more expensive. It's clearer who is paying for it (consumers) and who benefits,…
People buying products subject to tariffs (or products made with materials subject to tariffs) pay the majority of the tariff. So they do cost the public. In a functioning market, local suppliers are likely to raise prices in response to the tariffs, as they face less competition.
> In a functioning market, local suppliers are likely to raise prices in response to the tariffs, as they face less competition.
Is that entirely bad? The whole "US Made!" tagline of old stopped becoming possible because we couldn't charge wages low enough to compete with foreign dollars or foreign slave wages. Raising the cost of X item so that it is actually able to be produced locally would seem to, conceptually, bring that type of job "back".
With that said, there's the obvious opposite of now every item US made is meaningfully more expensive. Seeing as so much of what we buy is made offshore, this seems to effectively raise the cost of living.
So, I don't really have any answers.. but hey, I don't work in economics :)
Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not sure you understand how nations work. We elect people to work in our best interests. We are in competition with other countries. Our blue collar jobs have stagnated since we’ve been off-shoring manufacturing to China. The poor in the US were getting poorer. Not everyone has the ability to transition into a thinking job and we need a balanced economy for these people.
It's the whole competition mentality. If anything the US is in a competition against themselves. Everything seems to fight against helping your fellow man and all about gettings yours before anyone get's theirs. Healthcare for you fellow citizens? So controversial. Billions of dollars for war and killing others? Well that's ok then, let's spend that money no questions asked. You guys are at competition so much with e…
Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring
#37I really hate the new tariff. There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. The economy is recovering and I believe it may now be heading toward a recession. Here's the quick data on job created in raw number without the quality of the job to show that it is recovering since the 2008 recession: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2…
> There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. And yet other countries never seem to entertain the idea of both sides getting rid of all their tariffs, which is something Trump suggested at that G7 summit. Everyone goes nuts when the US suggests implementing tariffs against countries that already have tariffs against us. You gotta admit, the mess…
Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring
#38Out of all possible trade barriers, I think tariffs are generally the better option. The alternative is subsidies, quotas or "unofficial" barriers like product safety rules or other burry-you-in-bureaucracy setups. Tariffs bring in taxes (as opposed to costing the public) They're easier to understand. This one makes Chinese microwaves x% more expensive. It's clearer who is paying for it (consumers) and who benefits,…
I disagree. Wavepool, Maytag, etc.. Americans washer and dryer cloth machines pushed for Tariff from the Obama administration to fight against Samsung and other. The tariff target machine coming out from specific countries so Samsung and other moved to other South Eastern companies such as Vietnam. So the American companies pushed for tariff for all incoming washing machine that aren't American. Trump administration…
And I am not against free trade (well, with reservations), but I think this idea has been proven wrong historically. I think countries that try to do a bit of everything, be self-sufficient, and perhaps specialize only in some very specific areas are generally more successful.
Just look at the U.S. as an example - if they followed Smith's advice, they would still continue to trade cotton. This advice will never let countries to build up an industrial base. (Or funny you mentioned LG - they were originally a textile corporation but the government forced them into electric industry.)
In my view, a country should have as many diverse industries as much it can keep all the specialists busy (the same is true for companies, by the way). That means to try to produce locally everything that is sufficiently consumed locally.
The reason why is that there are strong network effects in diversification. It's great if you e.g. produce agricultural machinery and you can talk directly to the farmer, who is going to use it. If you sell this machinery to people on the other side of the planet, with a cultural barrier, this gets much trickier.
Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
People buying products subject to tariffs (or products made with materials subject to tariffs) pay the majority of the tariff. So they do cost the public. In a functioning market, local suppliers are likely to raise prices in response to the tariffs, as they face less competition.
I don't know anything about economy, so this is a question not.. a counter, but: > In a functioning market, local suppliers are likely to raise prices in response to the tariffs, as they face less competition. Is that entirely bad? The whole "US Made!" tagline of old stopped becoming possible because we couldn't charge wages low enough to compete with foreign dollars or foreign slave wages. Raising the cost of X item…
It's hard to go back from a race to the bottom
Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring
#40I really hate the new tariff. There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. The economy is recovering and I believe it may now be heading toward a recession. Here's the quick data on job created in raw number without the quality of the job to show that it is recovering since the 2008 recession: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2…
> There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. And yet other countries never seem to entertain the idea of both sides getting rid of all their tariffs, which is something Trump suggested at that G7 summit. Everyone goes nuts when the US suggests implementing tariffs against countries that already have tariffs against us. You gotta admit, the mess…