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Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

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Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#311

Post by watwut »

kamaal wrote: post #296
neotek wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be so disingenuous. Nobody is claiming the cars don't exist, the point is that Musk continuously makes insane, overreaching predictions that almost never come to pass, like the ludicrous "three months maybe, six months definitely" fully autonomous driving nonsense, or promises that Model 3 production will be on track for x units per month when the actual numbers are half that, and so on. This is so typical of a…

Promises to whom? Any outrageous ambition I set for myself, fail and end up achieving 10x along the way is better than routinely setting mediocre goals and succeeding all the time, but achieving way less than the prior scenario. 'Failing upwards' has been a thing for a while now.

No. Especially no when you are manager or any kind of leader. It is either called lies or irrationality or delusion. I am sick of troubled messy projects that fail precisely because management cant admit to themselves that estimates should be higher.

Rational behavior is to reward those who make ambitious but realistic goals. Not those who get support on unrealistic lies.

Just because it feels good does not mean it is any less lie.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#312

Post by kamaal »

Fricken wrote: post #250
durkie wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Why not?

Reason is slave to the passions. Musk sells a mirage that you can be reasonable without ever having to examine your passions. Who doesn't love driving? We just want to be told a lullabye that driving can still be the right thing to do. Musk is there for you. Musk and his little man.

>>Reason is slave to the passions.

Thank goodness for that, or heavier than air flying machines would still not be possible. Man would have never reached the moon, and the atoms wouldn't have been split.

Big progress largely happens because of irrationality. You have to be a little stupid and stubborn to do attempt a few things. Intelligent rational people are too clever for somethings in this world.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#313

Post by JumpCrisscross »

BurritoAlPastor wrote: post #277
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would they dig deep? Whenever an outsized high-risk position pays off, multiple regulators--at the SRO, state and federal levels--investigate. Mostly for insider trading. Sometimes in response to investor complaints or broker arbitration proceedings. These are well-paid professionals at the SEC, CFTC, FINRA, state financial services regulators, Federal Reserve, OCC, Treasury, and a bajillion other acronym agenc…

I don't think "outsized" is a factor here. How invested is the plurality shorter here? Maybe $10 million? One-thousandth, even one-hundredth, of a market position doesn't sound like an "outsized" investment to me.

> I don't think "outsized" is a factor here

I originally criticized the notion of a short seller sabotaging Tesla to make money. The moment you reach the scale where it makes sense, it also becomes easily discoverable.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#314

Post by ben_w »

ubernostrum wrote: post #242
TimTheTinker wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I hadn’t heard of that - pretty horrible stuff. Thanks for the info.

I'm not trying to be mean here, but: you never wondered why so many people in Iran hated the US enough to call it the "Great Satan"? I know we've had a generation or so of leaders over here who just prattle on about "they hate us for our freedom", but I'm kind of boggled by the idea that people don't get curious and wonder what really set off the level of virulent hatred of the US (and European powers) that existed a…

Regarding “The Great Satan”, I’d assumed that was just boring old xenophobia. Possibly with a dash of mistranslation, hyperbole, and nut picking.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#315

Post by strken »

JoshCole wrote: post #241
Maybestring wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The boogyman isn't the sabeteur, it's the mysterious cabal of oil barons and short sellers that put him up to it.

I think the boogeyman is whoever the guy was exporting data too, since they found data exportation features. Because why have data exportation unless you are doing it too somewhere.

The problem with this is that absent any other information he could have been sending data to literally anyone, including his mother's raspberry pi, the New York Times, a foreign government, a competitor, a nefarious trader, an FTP server he set up the day before, or anywhere else in the world. Jumping to conclusions is indicative of having already made your mind up, which itself could indicate some paranoia.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#316

Post by orbifold »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #123
colordrops wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got to be kidding right? One could easily create a list of 1000s of instances of corruption and corporate warfare in the US. And in China it's worse by a couple orders of magnitude, and more visible. Millions of people have been murdered over money let alone sabotaging a company. Lets not call others paranoid when it's actually naivety of these problems that is the issue.

> One could easily create a list of 1000s of instances of corruption and corporate warfare in the US Help me out.

Just look at the history of Congo for a continuous stream of examples starting with the colonization up to the various “humanitarian” interventions by “peacekeeping” forces.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#317

Post by manicdee »

neotek wrote: post #201
manicdee wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a huckster he’s doing a damn good job of fake shipping fake cars to fake customers who fake drive them in fake public. Excellent scam, would invest again.

Don't be so disingenuous. Nobody is claiming the cars don't exist, the point is that Musk continuously makes insane, overreaching predictions that almost never come to pass, like the ludicrous "three months maybe, six months definitely" fully autonomous driving nonsense, or promises that Model 3 production will be on track for x units per month when the actual numbers are half that, and so on. This is so typical of a…

You claimed that Elon is a huckster monorail salesman, a direct reference to an episode of the Simpsons involving a con job to sell a non functional and dangerous product to a gawping crowd.

That’s pretty much claiming that Elon is selling dodgy products that aren’t fit for purpose, and running off to Tahiti with the money. Yet we have Teslas that are widely loved by their owners, with many owners buying a second one because the other car is perceived as a punishment after driving the Tesla.

Perhaps you would be met with less derision if you weren’t out to portray Elon as a real life Lyle Lanley. I know, it’s a pretty far fetched idea to suggest that you can look at Elon’s promises as coming from an enthusiastic leader inexperienced in a particular field: he’s confident that the goals will be achieved but is extremely optimistic about time. He promised the Model 3, it is here. He promised feature parity for AP2 and it’s pretty much there. He promised ramping production and that is coming.

No other manufacturer is producing electric vehicles in the same volume as Tesla, and no other manufacturer has ensured that the infrastructure is available to support common use cases for personal vehicles.

And here you are accusing Elon of being a con artist intent on siphoning money from gullible investors, then crying victim when you don’t receive the adoring praise you were expecting.

What have you accomplished with your life while Elon has been shooting rockets to Mars, solving South Australia’s electricity problems, and weaning the transport industry off oil?

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#318

Post by [deleted] »

Maybestring wrote: post #156
naikrovek wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the email said that the guy admitted to it, and did it because he was denied a promotion. Not so invisible.

The boogyman isn't the sabeteur, it's the mysterious cabal of oil barons and short sellers that put him up to it.

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#319

Post by skocznymroczny »

ucaetano wrote: post #34

We need to figure out if he was acting alone or with others at Tesla and if he was working with any outside organizations. As you know, there are a long list of organizations that want Tesla to die. These include Wall Street short-sellers, who have already lost billions of dollars and stand to lose a lot more. Then there are the oil & gas companies, the wealthiest industry in the world — they don't love the idea of T…

I find it ironic how you relate 'alleged' and 'rumors' to Trump, given that most of his criticism is in such a form. "Anonymous sources report", "allegedly Trump is involved in", "rumours at the White House are that", "Trump may have xyz".

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#320

Post by neotek »

mmjaa wrote: post #269
neotek wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be so disingenuous. Nobody is claiming the cars don't exist, the point is that Musk continuously makes insane, overreaching predictions that almost never come to pass, like the ludicrous "three months maybe, six months definitely" fully autonomous driving nonsense, or promises that Model 3 production will be on track for x units per month when the actual numbers are half that, and so on. This is so typical of a…

You seem too easily persuaded that Elon Musk is a con man. Have you taken into account the massive empire he has already built - if he were truly as nefarious as you seem to imply, its hardly likely that he would've been able to effectively build rockets that land themselves, cars that drive themselves, alternatives to the oil-addiction we're all suffering under, etc. I mean, put some balance in your argument: What h…

Buying, or investing in, existing companies and then using his marketing skills to convince other investors (and governments) to pour billions of dollars into them is hardly the same thing as "building rockets that land themselves" - you can thank the engineers and visionaries at SpaceX for that. And his cars absolutely do not drive themselves despite his constant reassurances that they'll be able to do so Real Soon Now™.

In fact, as an aside, I would argue that Tesla's marketing is disgustingly misleading - their website loudly proclaims that all Teslas are equipped with every piece of hardware necessary for fully autonomous self-driving, and in a much smaller, much quieter voice they subtly admit that none of their cars are capable of actually doing that yet.

You may handwave that away as marketing fluff, but if you asked the average person in the street whether Teslas can drive themselves, 90% of them would say yes, of course they can, when in reality they're merely on par with other makes and models that have had the exact same driver assist features for years.

It's misleading at best, and lethal at worst - lives have been lost because drivers blindly placed their faith in autonomous driving features that simply do not work as implied. Go ahead and chalk that up to the drivers not being attentive enough, of course they share the bulk of the blame for not being in control of the vehicle they're driving, but it's hardly a surprise that many Tesla drivers have been lulled into a false sense of security by Tesla's marketing.

But again, nobody is arguing that Musk is running a straight up scam or that the products don't exist, the criticism is that he is constantly making promises and predictions he can't fulfil, constantly making claims that sound impressive until you look beneath the veneer, and whenever he is challenged to back up his assertions he either messily dodges the question or launches into yet another Twitter rant, and all the while his fans eagerly accept whatever he says without any care for objective reality.

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