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Eight hours a night isn’t enough, according to a leading sleep scientist

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Re: Eight hours a night isn’t enough, according to a leading sleep scientist

#151

> There’s this new finding where playing sounds at a certain frequency when your brain is in deep sleep actually increases the percentage of time spent in deep sleep. We’re publishing this paper in Society for Neuroscience Conference in a couple of weeks, and it’s basically what my TED talk is about. Playing these pulses at the same frequency as your deep-sleep brainwaves primes more deep sleep. Scientifically speaki…

Do you use phone speaker or sleep with headphones?

Binaural beats don't quite work without headphones (unless you got a carefully positioned speaker setup, and even then the effect probably isn't optimal).

It's a psycho-acoustic effect of hearing a beat frequency when playing two slightly differently tuned sounds in each ear. It's like the regular beat frequency effect that you use for tuning a guitar, play a 440Hz and 442Hz tone simultaneously and you'll hear a 2Hz beating frequency because the soundwaves physically cancel out twice per second. The binaural trick is that you play one tone in the left ear and the other in the right ear. So the tones never physically meet, yet your brain hallucinates the corresponding beat frequency regardless. You can easily test this for yourself if you're handy with audio software (try two sine waves first--careful with the volume though, pure sine waves can carry a lot of energy in headphones). Your brain is doing some really cool signal processing :)

The other part is something called "brainwave synchronisation" or "entrainment". Parts of your brain pulse at a certain frequency between 3Hz and 12Hz or thereabouts. 12/10Hz is when you're active and awake, 3Hz corresponds to very deep sleep (I think of the dreamless kind, but it's been a while). The specific frequency ranges have names of Greek letters (12/10Hz = alpha/beta), but from what I can tell and given that it's super hard to measure, thinking about it as "active" to "less active" is just about as useful (IIRC think 8-10Hz is supposed to be more "creative" or something).

The idea being that you start a session at roughly your current brain frequency, so probably in the 10-12Hz "active" range. And then it slowly slides down to the desired relaxation frequency over the course of 10-30 minutes or so. Some programs have specific sequences, going up and down, probably inspired by sleep cycles switching between deep sleep and more active states. A full sleep cycle is about 4.5 hours and brainsync sessions are usually much shorter.

Now, the funny thing here is, that there is actually NO reason that you need binaural beats to do this brainwave synchronisation. It's two entirely unrelated phenomena (if I'm mistaken and they are somehow related, PLEASE comment or link me :) I'm fascinated by this stuff, even though sceptical). It always seemed to me they focused on binaural beats simply because it has this extra "woo factor" of being about frequencies that "aren't really there" (the hallucinated beat frequencies). There's another technique called "isochronic tones", which are just beeps or clicks repeating at the desired 3-12Hz frequency, that works just as well (or perhaps better because it is direct stimulation instead of being deduced in the brain).

Binaural beats have one advantage though, that isochronic tones are SUPER annoying to listen to. And with the proper DSP plugin, you can apply binaural beats over any existing audio track, with minimal artifacts or distortion. So it's just much more nicer to have this soothing ambient soundscape, that also happens to have binaural beats embedded in it.

Except the problem is, which really muddles my conclusion of "does this even work", most people I hear reporting about binaural beats, don't actually listen using headphones. They just play it on their sound system while sleeping, which are often two tiny speakers near eachother, on the other side of the room. They report it really helps them sleep. I'm 99.99% sure that they're just falling asleep because of the nice ambient soundtracks binaural beats are laid over. There's just no way the binaural beat effect carries accurately over a room from cheap speakers.

Re: Eight hours a night isn’t enough, according to a leading sleep scientist

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I've worked remotely (from home) for years I can't possibly conceive how most workers are forced into a chair through the entire day. I had the luxury to lay down pretty much any time I wanted. No wonder back problems are so common. Now running a small office and I put a couch in a separate room specially for resting. Everyone seems to enjoy it for 10-15 minutes a day, nobody abuses it. Whoever thinks people ca…

As a manager, if I had a weird feeling that someone was "abusing" the couch (by sleeping on it too much), huge red flags would go up for me that I've missed something massive. Like a death in their family, undisclosed problems with a coworker or management, something medical, or general job apathy. I think I would read "abusing" as something more than just laying on the couch a lot. Like laying on the couch but stori…

Are you hiring?

Re: Eight hours a night isn’t enough, according to a leading sleep scientist

#154
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just more garbage. The trait might not really be adaptive - the cost might be worse memory for example.

Anecdote time. I know one person who matches the description of someone with the gene for not needing sleep. He’s an extremely high functioning individual.

Seconded. The only person I know who sleeps like this is also the highest functioning person I know.

Re: Eight hours a night isn’t enough, according to a leading sleep scientist

#155
post #147

Sleep is a twilight zone where personal problems get either amplified so that they become tangible or even get solved. He's right about one thing: it's not only 8 hours minimum you need, you should care about the quality of sleep you get. Especially that tendency of some people being completely K.O. and unproductive after lunch is a thing you should solve the right way. Though, the facts that he's a TED talks residen…

> completely K.O. and unproductive after lunch That's totally me. At that point I have no choice than to entirely skip lunch to be productive in the afternoon. Even eating a little can make me dramatically less productive. > you should solve the right way. What's the way to solve this? Sleeping more helps me but only a bit and I still get K.O. after lunch. I've researched this many times but never found any solution.…

Same here, I get so tired after lunch. I did a full blood panel and nothing abnormal. I eat low carb, healthy lunches and I still get tired. The only thing that helps is a strong coffee or a nap.

Re: Eight hours a night isn’t enough, according to a leading sleep scientist

#156
Has anyone seen research into letting your body sleep as long as it wants by not setting an alarm? I don't set an alarm anymore and reason that my body will wake up when it wants to. However doctors have told me that just because I don't "artificially" wake up, I might not be getting enough sleep.

Re: Eight hours a night isn’t enough, according to a leading sleep scientist

#157

Has anyone seen research into letting your body sleep as long as it wants by not setting an alarm? I don't set an alarm anymore and reason that my body will wake up when it wants to. However doctors have told me that just because I don't "artificially" wake up, I might not be getting enough sleep.

my body will wake up when it wants to.

That only works if you can completely control your external environment. Even when I don't set an alarm clock I often wake up at least partially due to external light/noise/temperature.

Re: Eight hours a night isn’t enough, according to a leading sleep scientist

#158

But is it worth the time? I've seen the studies showing how people who get more sleep live longer, but I always wonder, if you were measuring "total number of waking hours lived", would they come out to more or less equal? (My curiosity has never been strong enough to make me actually do the calculation.)

From my experience* yes, it is worth it. But not in "total number of waking hours lived", but in performance in those waking hours - every hour cut from my optimal 8-8.5h sleep reduces my awareness / perf at work / social skills by 10% or more.

* I worked both in menial jobs and as a programmer, both with periods of short & long sleep.

EDIT: I can of course force myself to perform at higher level even with shorter sleep, but that very often leads to need for even longer sleep or health issues.

Re: Eight hours a night isn’t enough, according to a leading sleep scientist

#159
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try earplugs and/or sleeping masks. They both take a little getting used to but they will definitely improve your sleep quality if external stimulation is your main problem.

I use earplugs almost every night. Earplugs don't block thumping from bass music or footsteps or slamming doors unfortunately. :-(

move to another place

Re: Eight hours a night isn’t enough, according to a leading sleep scientist

#160
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try earplugs and/or sleeping masks. They both take a little getting used to but they will definitely improve your sleep quality if external stimulation is your main problem.

I use earplugs almost every night. Earplugs don't block thumping from bass music or footsteps or slamming doors unfortunately. :-(

I live in Manhattan next to an intersection where people are beeping all night long. White noise machine on = I don't hear anything.
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