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Hire Family People

37signals.com

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Re: Hire Family People

#111

Post by asmosoinio »

sabat wrote: post #103
cellis wrote: post #54

I'll admit, DHH coming into Hacker News is a breath of fresh air, even if a few of the 20-somethings here (including myself) can sniff out the psuedo-defeatist , "statistically its not possible" scent it is tinged with. I think, on the whole of things, pg isn't out to attract the type of people that want to start the types of business DHH is talking about. I think pg is set out to do the same thing VC's do (invest in…

Maybe I'm in the minority. I think DHH's arrival here is a big gust of foul air. Suddenly the arguments are getting out of control, and pg's participating. Nitpicky, negative, petty debates. I've read every DHH post that's appeared here in the past days, and every one of them comes off like the work of a sophomoric contrarian who believes that the minor success he's had entitles him to tell the world how to think. I…

I have enjoyed the comments in this post, even if sometimes negative.

For example the PG's and DHH's discussion about definition of a "startup" might seem like nitpicking when taken out of context, but I found it extremely valuable.

Re: Hire Family People

#112

Post by neilk »

sabat wrote: post #103
cellis wrote: post #54

I'll admit, DHH coming into Hacker News is a breath of fresh air, even if a few of the 20-somethings here (including myself) can sniff out the psuedo-defeatist , "statistically its not possible" scent it is tinged with. I think, on the whole of things, pg isn't out to attract the type of people that want to start the types of business DHH is talking about. I think pg is set out to do the same thing VC's do (invest in…

Maybe I'm in the minority. I think DHH's arrival here is a big gust of foul air. Suddenly the arguments are getting out of control, and pg's participating. Nitpicky, negative, petty debates. I've read every DHH post that's appeared here in the past days, and every one of them comes off like the work of a sophomoric contrarian who believes that the minor success he's had entitles him to tell the world how to think. I…

We all argue from our narrow perspective. Certainly pg did, at least at first, when he offered his own startup experiences as a model for others. Perhaps since then his vision has been more empirically verified. But DHH's advice is basically conservative -- he's just arguing that web businesss can grow like other conventional small businesses -- so it has a fair amount of weight behind it too.

Re: Hire Family People

#113

Post by torpor »

I've been a programmer since I was 12 years old, and have over 30 years experience with technology companies - and yes, startups too .. I helped get a few major 90's-era dotcoms up and running and many of them are still at it today.

My experience is this: either you waste a lot of time futzing around with computers, or you make them do the work they need to do and get on with your life. It has nothing to do with how old or young you are, or how many kids you have. I am a very happy Father now - in fact, this is the greatest startup, with the most rewards, I've ever been involved in - and I'm still applying the same fundamental policy to myself as a programmer: get things done, don't futz around with computers, make them actually do the work they're supposed to do.

It doesn't matter what "kind" of person you are, it matters only what kind of things you make. I know 50-year old grandfathers who can kick royal Assembler ass and still leave early at the end of the day, and I know 18 year old kids who put the keyboard down after 8 hours and go do something else instead, as well.

IMHO, this over-generalization about 'types of people' is a real curse. I would say, don't do it. There are no 'types' of people in the computer world, no matter how the ycombinator cultists want to pitch it to the world: there are people who get things done, and people who don't.

Get things done. Get your code written, working, tested, and in the hands of people who will actually use it. If you can't do this, then you will fail. If you can, then rock on .. may your kids, now and in the future, always appreciate this aspect of you as a person.

Re: Hire Family People

#114

Post by jonp »

tptacek wrote: post #74
ashu wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it - who compared the odds anywhere in this discussion? It seems to me that the goals are just completely different. DHH is not explicitly aiming to grow the company into a billion dollar mammoth. A startup and its investors are very explicitly aiming for that (or somewhere close). Both are viable but completely different ecosystems.

You are, I believe, almost completely wrong. You've assumed that 37Signals refusal to staff up and take speculative VC rounds means they're steering the ship away from being "a billion dollar mammoth". But 37Signals is more successful than most of the companies (yes, most ) that take VC rounds, and has enviable revenue growth. I think you're seeing a business model that doesn't fit the YC get-rich-quick mold --- and…

I'm just curious what happens when the comments get really thin.

Re: Hire Family People

#116

Post by demallien »

jonp wrote: post #114
tptacek wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are, I believe, almost completely wrong. You've assumed that 37Signals refusal to staff up and take speculative VC rounds means they're steering the ship away from being "a billion dollar mammoth". But 37Signals is more successful than most of the companies (yes, most ) that take VC rounds, and has enviable revenue growth. I think you're seeing a business model that doesn't fit the YC get-rich-quick mold --- and…

I'm just curious what happens when the comments get really thin.

Lol, good question. Let's keep yhe experiment going then.

We now return to your regular program...

Re: Hire Family People

#117

Post by brlewis »

skmurphy wrote: post #109
brlewis wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling that, if I ever applied to YCombinator, my application would end up in the wastebasket the moment they caught a whiff of the fact that I have a wife and kids. Is that fair? No, it is not fair for you to air that feeling here. The YC partners get enough discouragement from having to reject a lot of smart people, so why add discouragement about someone speculating they would be rejected if they actuall…

News.yc is a community site. YC partners may be the stone in the stone soup but the soup comes from the community.

You're right that the surrounding community is a big part of the value. If stones were themselves tasty, and if they worked to maintain the quality of the other ingredients, I would completely agree with your stone soup analogy.

Re: Hire Family People

#119

Post by wensing »

aswanson wrote: post #63
menloparkbum wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to be able to know exactly what Steve Jobs and Bill Gates were thinking when they started their respective companies, but I'm pretty sure they had bigger designs than what you're suggesting.

You're probably right, as my psychic abilities and time travel skills have been failing of late...I can't imagine any rational business owner not wanting as much money and market share as possible. I know I do.

Well, as long as "as much money and market share as possible" doesn't equate to "growing as fast as possible." There are plenty of 'conservative' businesses that avoid growing fast like the plague. Risk management and all that.

Re: Hire Family People

#120

Post by wensing »

nostrademons wrote: post #16
pg wrote: post #13

Even if people with kids were more productive per hour, that's not enough in a real startup. The empirical evidence is pretty clear on that. I can't think of a successful startup whose founders didn't, in addition to being smart and determined etc, also work long hours.

But it does apply to founders. Nearly everyone interviewed in Founders at Work remarked that constraints breed creativity. That focus is one reason startups can kick the ass of big corporations. It's just that it's possible to overconstrain the solution as much as underconstrain it. In the early stages, there's so much work to do that if you try to add kids to the mix, you don't even attempt it. As the startup gets m…

In the early stages, there's so much work to do that if you try to add kids to the mix, you don't even attempt it.

This sentence resonated with me as a father of two. But on second thought, I realize, the root reason I do not attempt it (again, for now) is a lack of finances and stability, not a lack of time. I lack time because I have a day job, and I have a day job because I don't have the money to pursue my own business without incurring lots of debt.

The optimal solution, for me, would be to have 12 months salary saved up, and burn through that while starting my own business. And it wouldn't be a 'startup' by PG's definition--I've learned that control is more important to me than growing fast.

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