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Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

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Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#131
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”reverse geo-coding, turning a lat/long into a human readable place highly inaccurate ... no means of turning a lat/long into a point on the map” Three words for you ... https://what3words.com

But navigation systems in an car do work on streetnames and numbers ;)

Not in many parts of the world.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#132

Oakland needs this help so badly. Call 911 on a cell in Oakland, and you're going to wait on hold for 30 minutes, most of which will be you being transfered to the wrong departments over and over. You start at a call center somewhere in middle America with a person who does not know where Oakland is. They pass you to CA CHP, who don't know Oakland either, because their dispatcher on the line is out of Sacramento. Fin…

Sadly, this is not unique to Oakland. Several of the cities I've lived in have been plagued with 911 hold times of 10-20 minutes or more.

In one city, the mayor threatened to put a checklist on the ballot so people could decide which types of emergencies would be responded to, and the top vote-getters would be funded.

In another, a city council member publicly told his constituents "the police are not here to protect you. If you want to be safe, get a gun and a dog."

In Las Vegas for several years recently, the police department stopped responding to traffic crashes unless someone was killed. The insurance companies put pressure on the city to reverse that.

Unfortunately, it seems that all of the "homeland security" money that the feds send to the locals goes into military-grade weapons, and not into basic services like 911 and police patrols.

I would like to see a city sell the tanks it gets from the feds and use the money for 911, and other needed services.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#133
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Improving the 911 EMS system won't improve police response time in Oakland because Oakland, like most of the US, has an ongoing shortage of police officers. There isn't any easy way to make the job of a police officer more attractive.

The hatred directed at police officers certainly doesn't help. The recent fury directed at the handful of police officers who did not enter this or that school with an active shooter comes to mind. People have the expectation that police officers are required to die for us. Imagine being told by someone who already hates you, that you are supposed to die for them. It feels like we are awfully entitled when it comes t…

With all due respect, a lot of that hatred stems from the high profile cases where police have overstepped the bounds with little or no recourse.

The body cam of that man in the hotel corridor being just one of the latest.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#134
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't grasp this logic. Apple builds a feature to help with 911 services so they should fund 911 services? Apple also implemented Amber Alert support. Should they fund the Amber Alert system, too? Aren't emergency services pretty clearly the government's job? You already pay a fee on your cell bill specifically to cover the cost of 911 services to your local and state governments.

Edit: Benjammer’s response is superior to mine. Yes, large device manufacturers should help fund the infrastructure they build product support into their products for. You might disagree with my opinion, but I don’t see the opinion as being wildly out of line. If Apple doesn’t fund it, and per mobile line 911 taxes don’t cover it, everyone’s taxes have to go up to support Apples enhanced feature and the marketing goo…

They arguably _are_ helping fund it, by paying for the complete implementation of the client-side support for enhanced location services.

Pushing too much of that onto a corporation who makes phones is just silly. It's bloody hard to make any kind of argument that it's even remotely their responsibility.

> If Apple doesn’t fund it, and per mobile line 911 taxes don’t cover it, everyone’s taxes have to go up to support Apples enhanced feature and the marketing goodwill they’ll receive. Does that seem fair?

If tax doesn't cover it, then it should simply not happen, and you stick with the current level of location services provided by the cell phone company. Not happy with that? You probably ought to start a petition to raise people's taxes to fund your local 911 operation better so they can do this.

Don't want to pay tax for it? Shit, who's going to pay for public services if that's your attitude?

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#135
post #116

This is an extraordinarily important and interesting “space” ripe for innovation. A few weeks ago, I was awarded one of the highest civilian public awards from the Commandant of the US Coast Guard in DC for my volunteer web mapping work during Harvey. That work helped coordinate 700 helicopter sorties and save 1700 lives. I’ve been thinking — and talking with Emergency Responders — about what an up to date 911 would…

I worked on 911 reporting software oh 6 or 7 years ago now, and I seem to remember talk about allowing SMS and MMS along with live-streamed video coming from mobile phones to the PSAPs ... but I guess there hasn't been much movement on that. I think the trouble you'll run into is the various agencies involved (since it's been quite a while I don't really remember), e.g. the Sheriff's departments run the PSAPs and I b…

I realize you can’t necessarily comment on individual deployments, but I’d like to publicly shame Vacaville, CA’s e911 combined with Verizon and/or iPhone plain doesn’t work. Contacting the FCC, Verizon determined they were sending valid position information but the city/county weren’t necessarily using it correctly. All it takes is for a rape/murder to happen and police unable to get to a victim because of it for some heads to roll, but unfortunately, it will take death(s) before such a problem is resolved.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#136
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Improving the 911 EMS system won't improve police response time in Oakland because Oakland, like most of the US, has an ongoing shortage of police officers. There isn't any easy way to make the job of a police officer more attractive.

The hatred directed at police officers certainly doesn't help. The recent fury directed at the handful of police officers who did not enter this or that school with an active shooter comes to mind. People have the expectation that police officers are required to die for us. Imagine being told by someone who already hates you, that you are supposed to die for them. It feels like we are awfully entitled when it comes t…

Perhaps it could also be at least partly related to the systemic and indiscriminate killing of people of color by police forces across the entire country.

I can't say I blame would-be "good cop" cadets deciding not to join the force to be associated with these acts; the willingness to protect bad cops by leadership seems, from the outside, to mean the entire system is rotten and impossible to change from within.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#137

Oakland needs this help so badly. Call 911 on a cell in Oakland, and you're going to wait on hold for 30 minutes, most of which will be you being transfered to the wrong departments over and over. You start at a call center somewhere in middle America with a person who does not know where Oakland is. They pass you to CA CHP, who don't know Oakland either, because their dispatcher on the line is out of Sacramento. Fin…

It seems like there oughta be an app that can make it easy to pick non-/emergency numbers for a given location, type of service and jurisdiction (highway/state, unincorporated/county sheriff, incorporated/municipality, park ranger, tribal, military, etc.)

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#138

I have been deploying e911 call taking systems for more than 10 years. All the areas that I service have been getting pretty accurate location data on mobile callers since I started. Initially, the providers send the location of the tower they are on and the triangulation data with the call. A couple of seconds later they will send more accurate GPS coordinates for most calls, which are usually pretty good. Sometimes…

> I am not saying that they couldn't do better, but this article insinuates there is some kind of major problem where there isn't.

That's great that where you are it seems to work well, but it's a big country and Apple is in a much better position to know if meaningful improvements can be made nationwide (and it sounds like they're not going for "pretty good", but for "best possible"). Also, RapidSOS seems to be targeting urban areas where GPS is notoriously spotty.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#139
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”reverse geo-coding, turning a lat/long into a human readable place highly inaccurate ... no means of turning a lat/long into a point on the map” Three words for you ... https://what3words.com

That helps with communicating the lat/long, but not with determining where that actually is. With what3words, not only are first responders still required to use some mobile device, but they're also reliant on a proprietary service (read: point of failure).

There should be no point of failure. By using the same hashing algorithm to produce 3 words worldwide, anyone with the same seed could produce coordinates for any words. Or the 3 words for any coordinates.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#140

Oakland needs this help so badly. Call 911 on a cell in Oakland, and you're going to wait on hold for 30 minutes, most of which will be you being transfered to the wrong departments over and over. You start at a call center somewhere in middle America with a person who does not know where Oakland is. They pass you to CA CHP, who don't know Oakland either, because their dispatcher on the line is out of Sacramento. Fin…

Sadly, this is not unique to Oakland. Several of the cities I've lived in have been plagued with 911 hold times of 10-20 minutes or more. In one city, the mayor threatened to put a checklist on the ballot so people could decide which types of emergencies would be responded to, and the top vote-getters would be funded. In another, a city council member publicly told his constituents "the police are not here to protect…

Ouch. Sounds like a failed state scenario: anarchy by services disappearing and unconcern for community. When a government ceases to provide a fundamental function, such as protecting its citizens, it risks irrelevancy... and citizens better form their own government to replace the one not doing its job, or they’re inviting criminal thugs reminiscent of ISIS to fill the power-vacuum.
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